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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the show of Martin

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will usher host and we are got on kgr a

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radio tonight and I guess I would take

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fault for that because of a I'm using

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zoom and it just was not going to work

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with their phone lines and all that over

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there they're gonna try to work out

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those bugs and we'll be back on K GRA

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next week but for now we're just on

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YouTube

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and tonight just to let you know how

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things are going first of all I have the

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one and only Alejandro Rojas gonna be

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joining me for about 20 minutes or so

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and then after that I have our first

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guest for about 30-something minutes and

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that's Earling strand from Norway he was

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on recorded twice the second time

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because the file was corrupt the first

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time and so it's it's late at night very

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late at night for him and that's why he

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wanted to pre-record so I will be in the

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chatroom during that time and after that

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we have Seth Shostak coming in live and

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I will gonna be I'm gonna be taking

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calls on zoom I'll tell you how that'll

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work

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I want to thank everyone that supports

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the show anyone can do that all you have

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to do is go over to podcast UFO calm and

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you can see the information over there

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or patreon I also want to say that we

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have another blog this week from Charles

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Lear and that's UFOs in China so check

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that out he's researched it pretty well

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it's interesting there's that story

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about the airport I remember they closed

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the airport over there that would seem

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like it was just a few years ago all

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interesting stuff but for now we are

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going to get in a little bit of a chat

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with Alejandro

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how are you Alonzo oh oh I like doing

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good hello Martin Knights is that what

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your followers are called do they have a

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name Omar nice no mark night sounds a

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bit cold fish but you might like that to

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be a leader of a cult yeah

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finally yeah that's my calling yeah no I

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know we do have some great listeners and

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I don't know why but lately African some

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wonderful email in the last couple days

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so I want to thank all those people

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sending kind words and you know it makes

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up one kind email makes up for the

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twenty troll emails and comments that we

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both are familiar with unfortunately but

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yeah I like that Martin Knights I'm

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gonna call Martin Knight so um and I'm

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also excited I think it's gonna be

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interesting especially if you ask Seth

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Shostak if he knows about the head

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stolen lights and what he knows the

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contrast between what mister dr. strand

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has to say and dr. Shostak ought to be

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interesting yes yes I like talking to

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erling because you know he's a basically

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a scientist as you know because you know

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him that is taking a chance a chance of

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ridicule or you know or people not

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taking him seriously on other things so

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I do appreciate it and I think you know

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the best thing that he does is he gets

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his students involved they get to

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witness that you know the things

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sometimes they get to see the firsthand

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which is really exciting for them that's

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all yeah that is really cool yeah so I

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see it it seems like every time we talk

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you have a different background yeah I

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know it's your where yeah I know yet

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this is what I you I've been doing the

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show for a while but I've moved it

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around a bit just because you know I've

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got a new headquarters that I've moved

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some of my stuff to so the old

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headquarters I don't have all my cool

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gear here and that my lights so I don't

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have my lights here so that's why the

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Lighting's different and everything but

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next week will be another location or I

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should yet the new headquarters

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hopefully I'll have that all set up for

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you too so that'll be a lot of fun yeah

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yeah that looking forward to seeing that

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and I bet you're really looking forward

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to the move you know being settled in

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your new place

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yes I'm mostly settled in and so just

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going back and forth and I'm

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very excited about it yeah all right

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well hey what's what's going on it seems

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like the big story of this last week is

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about the army the army situation you

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want to talk about that yeah so that is

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the big story of course is to the Stars

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working with the army you know we've got

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that announcement maybe out like a week

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ago and that was from to the stars

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saying they're working with the army on

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this project called CRA da prata

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which is essentially working to examine

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these mysterious materials that come

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from you IEP cases that to the Stars has

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been talking about Elizondo is on Tucker

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Carlson recently and and he's been on

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other shows talking about this so what's

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the deal is what everybody's thinking

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and it's of course this is really

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important and surprising the original to

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the stars announcement didn't have a lot

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of information it was very kind of

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enigmatic but now others have kind of

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examined the information in fact you're

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on Greenwald of the black falls did get

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a copy of the entire agreement that he

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posted and there have been some comments

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to the media from the Army now what's

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great about this is that the Army is

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confirming yes we are working with them

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to help analyze this material the

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documentation says they're not paying to

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the stars to do that and however they

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they are planning on spending up to

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seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars

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to do the analysis because that's the

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whole problem with materials analysis is

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that it's very expensive

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you know people followers of mine or

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yours you know you have Robert Powell on

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quite a bit he's done a lot of attempts

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at material analysis and talks about the

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expense and that is limited what we've

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been able to do even for materials that

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have been out around for a very long

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time such as the alleged arts parts or

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the so-called arts parts which were

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these materials that were sent to art

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Bell

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many years ago and then Linda how kind

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of took over the investigation of them

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and now two stars

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at them as well some of the members up

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to the stars when they were with Bigelow

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National Institute of Discovery Sciences

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also took a look at this material but

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they're still you know inquiring whether

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or not you know these are something

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mysterious because there's this debate

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about their about whether they are or

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not so the great thing is is that the

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Army is now participating and putting

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some money towards this until hopefully

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now we'll be able to kind of find out

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more and maybe even put to bed some of

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these debates to find out if some of

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this material actually is you know or

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does have mysterious properties or can

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be proven to be from elsewhere or what

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would be especially exciting is if we

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could prove their you know manufactured

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elsewhere meaning off planet and that

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the the methods used to manufacture the

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materials are unknown to us that would

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be that's kind of the goal post that's

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what we're looking for what's great

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about this there's a couple comments

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some people have said you know this is

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true the Stars trying to grab cash but

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as I said earlier this isn't something

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that they're gonna be making money at

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which is unfortunate in my view because

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to the Stars needs money any program

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needs money to continue so hopefully you

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know some funds will come in this does

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alleviate them having to spend their

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funds on these processes the Army will

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be doing that so that's helpful the

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other criticism is that you know that

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they're getting in bed with the military

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in the military you pointed out that the

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military the army I said you know you

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pointed this out on my show it's

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something you saw in the document is

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that the army says you know they have to

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give a sign-off 30-day days ahead of

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time before any communication is going

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out about the work that the army is

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going to be helping with so they'll say

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oh they're just gonna hide the

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information the good part of that is

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that well and the other thing is that

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makes sense why would the army want you

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know Tom DeLonge has said some odd

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things in the past and you know I think

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the army with any partner would want to

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know what's going to be said about their

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work before it

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out there I mean that just makes sense

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if they're gonna have a partnership the

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other thing is is I personally feel from

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working with these guys and from what

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I've seen that they do want to be as

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transparent as possible they did a vice

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interviewer carried along who works it

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was Tom DeLonge sister who does a lot of

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their PR he was talking about that's a

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big deal for them to be as transparent

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as possible and although people have

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felt they haven't been really I think

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that they have been as much as possible

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we've seen a lot they talked to the

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media a lot really and have given a lot

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of information the television show

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unidentified has revealed a lot so I

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think at least we are having an outlet

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for information coming to the public

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about all of these studies

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so really m+ you know we've heard from

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the Navy now about UAP studies and their

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positive aspect and now we have input

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from the army we still haven't heard

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from the Air Force but hopefully we will

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so I think it's it's an amazing time

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that we have you know these defense

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agencies coming forward to say that you

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ApS are real thing they take them

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seriously and now they're participating

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in sort of a public facing investigation

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you know this this collaboration or

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whatever you know you'd you'd want to

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call it in a way to me seems

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unprecedented to anything I can actually

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picture I'm not talking about just the

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UFO aspect of it it's just that the

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government the Army is publicly willing

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to talk about working together doing

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research of something unusual you know

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to me it just seems unprecedented I

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agree with you you know the only time we

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had this was really the early days of

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the Air Force investigations and UFOs

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project sign at that time there were

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many people associated with project sign

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that felt that UFOs were a real

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phenomenon something that needed to be

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examined in a in a serious manner

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in fact you know general twining it's a

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famous memo that he wrote along these

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lines that help start project sign which

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was prior to Project Blue Book during

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that era they actually came up with a

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summary where they concluded in project

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sign that yes UFOs are a thing they are

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important some of them are unidentified

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we haven't been able to figure out what

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they are they could be of an

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extraterrestrial nature they could be

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from an ET civilization and the

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higher-ups didn't like that conclusion

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and ever since then they had a really

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poor attitude towards the whole topic

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00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:11,780
into project grudge and then eventually

275
00:12:17,830 --> 00:12:14,810
project Bluebook this is well documented

276
00:12:20,020 --> 00:12:17,840
in Edward rappels book he was the guy

277
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:20,030
who was the first to head up project

278
00:12:25,690 --> 00:12:22,250
Bluebook in 1952 the guy who coined the

279
00:12:27,250 --> 00:12:25,700
phrase UFO highly recommend that book

280
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:27,260
you can read it for free on the night

281
00:12:33,430 --> 00:12:31,010
cap website and I see AP but you know

282
00:12:35,710 --> 00:12:33,440
the Air Force took things seriously at

283
00:12:38,380 --> 00:12:35,720
the beginning and then it got really

284
00:12:41,140 --> 00:12:38,390
negative and then we haven't had any

285
00:12:42,940 --> 00:12:41,150
real official investigations that have

286
00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:42,950
been public-facing we've had government

287
00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:44,570
documents where we've been able to say

288
00:12:47,500 --> 00:12:45,890
hey it looks like you guys have taken

289
00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:47,510
some of these things seriously and

290
00:12:52,750 --> 00:12:49,490
they've said no no no when obviously

291
00:12:55,540 --> 00:12:52,760
they have it's only recently that we've

292
00:12:58,150 --> 00:12:55,550
had this you know admission that these

293
00:12:59,910 --> 00:12:58,160
investigations have gone on and then you

294
00:13:03,220 --> 00:12:59,920
know now we have the Navy and the army

295
00:13:05,190 --> 00:13:03,230
taking positive steps towards doing this

296
00:13:07,630 --> 00:13:05,200
research which is like you said

297
00:13:09,580 --> 00:13:07,640
unprecedented it'sing it's incredible

298
00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:09,590
it's kind of interesting we haven't

299
00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:12,530
heard from the Air Force at all up to

300
00:13:17,230 --> 00:13:14,570
this point so we don't know really what

301
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:17,240
they're thinking they did have a comment

302
00:13:20,940 --> 00:13:19,010
on one story I forgot what they said

303
00:13:24,340 --> 00:13:20,950
they didn't really say much except for

304
00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:24,350
you know that something along the lines

305
00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:27,170
of that that really indicating that that

306
00:13:32,410 --> 00:13:29,210
actually they felt some of these cases

307
00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:32,420
truly were unidentified so I think

308
00:13:36,460 --> 00:13:33,850
that's interesting

309
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:36,470
so we'll see I think that the future I

310
00:13:40,990 --> 00:13:38,810
don't think this is you know this is

311
00:13:43,510 --> 00:13:41,000
just the beginning of all of this and

312
00:13:45,670 --> 00:13:43,520
people keep saying that I think to the

313
00:13:46,630 --> 00:13:45,680
Stars and Louise Elizondo keep saying

314
00:13:48,610 --> 00:13:46,640
that and

315
00:13:51,820 --> 00:13:48,620
that appears to be true because more and

316
00:13:53,650 --> 00:13:51,830
more positive news of investigation and

317
00:13:56,500 --> 00:13:53,660
research going on it's been coming out

318
00:13:58,960 --> 00:13:56,510
and you know what I would tell people to

319
00:14:00,610 --> 00:13:58,970
look forward to is typically when these

320
00:14:03,250 --> 00:14:00,620
things happen you know

321
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:03,260
then news and information about findings

322
00:14:08,140 --> 00:14:05,450
rolls out for a couple years

323
00:14:09,850 --> 00:14:08,150
because really things get started during

324
00:14:12,340 --> 00:14:09,860
the beginning you don't hear much when

325
00:14:14,830 --> 00:14:12,350
the real research is going on once

326
00:14:17,110 --> 00:14:14,840
results start coming back you start to

327
00:14:19,450 --> 00:14:17,120
hear a little bit and then once those

328
00:14:21,580 --> 00:14:19,460
results are more vetted and you know

329
00:14:23,860 --> 00:14:21,590
people are prepared to actually make

330
00:14:26,380 --> 00:14:23,870
statements and you hear more that can

331
00:14:29,770 --> 00:14:26,390
take months maybe a year or two it could

332
00:14:31,210 --> 00:14:29,780
take a while that may be kind of a

333
00:14:33,250 --> 00:14:31,220
bummer for some people who want

334
00:14:34,510 --> 00:14:33,260
information more quickly but the good

335
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:34,520
thing is is that means that this is

336
00:14:38,260 --> 00:14:36,050
going to be in the headline to this it's

337
00:14:41,380 --> 00:14:38,270
going to be news for for quite some time

338
00:14:45,850 --> 00:14:41,390
you know in the in the future mm-hmm

339
00:14:48,700 --> 00:14:45,860
wasn't there an article that just came

340
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:48,710
out that said something about they think

341
00:14:54,940 --> 00:14:51,530
they can explain the videos and ended up

342
00:14:57,880 --> 00:14:54,950
kind of associating with the Navy's you

343
00:15:01,300 --> 00:14:57,890
know patents which are just theories at

344
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:01,310
this point yeah I mean they're not

345
00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:05,120
anything in my opinion credible along

346
00:15:11,470 --> 00:15:08,450
those lines really we've had people make

347
00:15:12,820 --> 00:15:11,480
that suggestion but not in a credible

348
00:15:16,630 --> 00:15:12,830
way where they can demonstrate that

349
00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:16,640
fully really I think some of one of the

350
00:15:21,220 --> 00:15:18,650
people who's done the best analysis

351
00:15:23,050 --> 00:15:21,230
along those lines is Tyler rogue away of

352
00:15:25,330 --> 00:15:23,060
the drivin you could read his stories

353
00:15:28,270 --> 00:15:25,340
and he suggested perhaps there are some

354
00:15:30,690 --> 00:15:28,280
technologies that the US is using that

355
00:15:34,750 --> 00:15:30,700
could answer some of these questions

356
00:15:37,450 --> 00:15:34,760
however he's examined those patents and

357
00:15:39,580 --> 00:15:37,460
he's had physicists look at it he does

358
00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:39,590
not and the physicists you've talked to

359
00:15:44,020 --> 00:15:42,530
don't believe that this technology is

360
00:15:45,820 --> 00:15:44,030
actually something that has been

361
00:15:49,540 --> 00:15:45,830
developed or even could ever be

362
00:15:50,950 --> 00:15:49,550
developed and he agrees with that and I

363
00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:50,960
think you make some great arguments

364
00:15:58,030 --> 00:15:53,090
there he's obviously very detailed in

365
00:15:59,950 --> 00:15:58,040
his analysis and however and he even

366
00:16:00,639 --> 00:15:59,960
though he suspects perhaps there could

367
00:16:03,730 --> 00:16:00,649
be

368
00:16:06,999 --> 00:16:03,740
human explanation he always admits that

369
00:16:10,989 --> 00:16:07,009
you know if we find out that humans

370
00:16:12,549 --> 00:16:10,999
created objects or devices or aircraft

371
00:16:15,609 --> 00:16:12,559
that can move maneuver the way these

372
00:16:17,109 --> 00:16:15,619
Navy jet fighters explain it that would

373
00:16:19,540 --> 00:16:17,119
be extraordinary that would be

374
00:16:21,970 --> 00:16:19,550
groundbreaking and that technology would

375
00:16:23,859 --> 00:16:21,980
be years and years and years more

376
00:16:26,199 --> 00:16:23,869
advanced than what we currently have so

377
00:16:28,299 --> 00:16:26,209
it would be an amazing extraordinary

378
00:16:31,299 --> 00:16:28,309
story and development if that were the

379
00:16:34,179 --> 00:16:31,309
case and he also admits though that he

380
00:16:36,069 --> 00:16:34,189
has no indication that that has happened

381
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:36,079
that we have been able to develop

382
00:16:41,650 --> 00:16:39,410
anything like that and so for him it's a

383
00:16:44,259 --> 00:16:41,660
real head-scratcher and you know for a

384
00:16:46,749 --> 00:16:44,269
mainstream journalist who writes about

385
00:16:48,939 --> 00:16:46,759
aviation and defense you know he's

386
00:16:50,799 --> 00:16:48,949
really kind of like in a bind he's an

387
00:16:52,929 --> 00:16:50,809
honest journalist and he's like on the

388
00:16:54,910 --> 00:16:52,939
one hand it's got to be something human

389
00:16:56,679 --> 00:16:54,920
on the other hand it can't be because

390
00:16:59,290 --> 00:16:56,689
there's no way we have technology like

391
00:17:02,439 --> 00:16:59,300
this so you know that's what's got him

392
00:17:04,299 --> 00:17:02,449
so compelled to really cover this story

393
00:17:06,370 --> 00:17:04,309
and I think that's a really good place

394
00:17:11,590 --> 00:17:06,380
to look for developments along those

395
00:17:13,360 --> 00:17:11,600
lines right right and several years ago

396
00:17:16,679 --> 00:17:13,370
do you remember I'm trying to remember

397
00:17:19,029 --> 00:17:16,689
just slipping my mind right now the

398
00:17:22,029 --> 00:17:19,039
gentleman from skunk works that said

399
00:17:22,539 --> 00:17:22,039
right now we have technology to take e.t

400
00:17:25,389 --> 00:17:22,549
home

401
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:25,399
do you remember well that secondhand

402
00:17:31,060 --> 00:17:29,450
information is okay it is and you know I

403
00:17:33,159 --> 00:17:31,070
think there's been some good that was

404
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:33,169
you know a couple MUFON guys Jan

405
00:17:39,159 --> 00:17:35,570
horizon-- was there to hear that

406
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:39,169
statement along with I forget he also

407
00:17:44,110 --> 00:17:41,120
works with a me wrote the the kind of

408
00:17:46,180 --> 00:17:44,120
beginner's guide to UFOs I forget his

409
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:46,190
name right now but he was there also a

410
00:17:52,149 --> 00:17:49,330
friend of James who is a engineer now

411
00:17:54,810 --> 00:17:52,159
there have been other quotes that are

412
00:18:00,220 --> 00:17:54,820
similar that we've heard from Ben rich

413
00:18:02,830 --> 00:18:00,230
radio and however you know if you hear

414
00:18:05,049 --> 00:18:02,840
the full statement they really don't

415
00:18:08,039 --> 00:18:05,059
indicate that he felt there was

416
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:08,049
technology that was eat he related it or

417
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:11,330
back-engineered from ETS but that he was

418
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:13,970
very proud of the technologies that they

419
00:18:16,750 --> 00:18:14,570
had to bail

420
00:18:18,370 --> 00:18:16,760
that skunk works but really I don't

421
00:18:21,370 --> 00:18:18,380
think there's enough evidence to show

422
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:21,380
that he meant you know we back

423
00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:24,850
engineered alien technology nor that he

424
00:18:30,340 --> 00:18:28,130
you know believes that the technology

425
00:18:33,130 --> 00:18:30,350
you know they developed did such things

426
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:33,140
or could you know people use it for an

427
00:18:37,060 --> 00:18:35,330
excuse for this space race or something

428
00:18:39,820 --> 00:18:37,070
like that I mean it's interesting his

429
00:18:41,950 --> 00:18:39,830
predecessor who I can't remember his

430
00:18:45,370 --> 00:18:41,960
name right now who really helped develop

431
00:18:48,310 --> 00:18:45,380
area 51 did have a UFO sighting and he

432
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:48,320
took UFOs very seriously he said what

433
00:18:52,090 --> 00:18:50,480
they saw was not you know ours it

434
00:18:53,310 --> 00:18:52,100
couldn't be and they would know they

435
00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:53,320
were developing the cutting-edge

436
00:18:59,410 --> 00:18:57,050
aviation technology of the time so I

437
00:19:03,340 --> 00:18:59,420
think that I think that they that's an

438
00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:03,350
example of where I think there's a they

439
00:19:08,950 --> 00:19:06,530
saw true delineation between the UFOs

440
00:19:11,890 --> 00:19:08,960
that were observed and the technologies

441
00:19:15,370 --> 00:19:11,900
they were developing and I think they

442
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:15,380
were two separate things so I can't

443
00:19:19,690 --> 00:19:17,330
we're out of time already can you

444
00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:19,700
believe that one really fast and always

445
00:19:23,620 --> 00:19:22,130
yeah excellent well I'll be talking to

446
00:19:25,690 --> 00:19:23,630
you next week and good luck with your

447
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:25,700
moving around you're doing there all

448
00:19:28,330 --> 00:19:26,570
right thanks

449
00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:28,340
alrighty later all right take care

450
00:19:34,300 --> 00:19:31,130
alright everyone so hang in there we're

451
00:19:39,100 --> 00:19:34,310
coming up with our next guest and his

452
00:19:42,990 --> 00:19:39,110
name is Earling strand he has a very

453
00:19:47,140 --> 00:19:43,000
interesting science background and he

454
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:47,150
actually was one of the founders of the

455
00:19:53,250 --> 00:19:49,250
Heslin project or they'll be talking

456
00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:53,260
about all of that and so hang in and

457
00:20:00,400 --> 00:19:57,770
here he is right now all right

458
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:00,410
my first guest this is a pre record and

459
00:20:06,130 --> 00:20:04,610
I am doing that because it's going to be

460
00:20:09,250 --> 00:20:06,140
the middle of the night by the time the

461
00:20:12,220 --> 00:20:09,260
show goes live for Erling strand over in

462
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:12,230
Norway and Erling welcome to the show

463
00:20:19,710 --> 00:20:16,250
thank you thank you very much I'm glad

464
00:20:21,580 --> 00:20:19,720
to be here yes this is our second time a

465
00:20:23,950 --> 00:20:21,590
pre-recording I have to get into that

466
00:20:27,130 --> 00:20:23,960
but we had a bad file so I really really

467
00:20:28,230 --> 00:20:27,140
appreciate really appreciate this so I

468
00:20:29,970 --> 00:20:28,240
want to start

469
00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:29,980
out we're going to be talking about the

470
00:20:35,990 --> 00:20:33,130
hesselman lights the phenomena and you

471
00:20:39,750 --> 00:20:36,000
have quite a background can you give the

472
00:20:42,510 --> 00:20:39,760
listener your basic background and what

473
00:20:48,150 --> 00:20:42,520
got you interested in this

474
00:20:52,010 --> 00:20:48,160
this phenomenon actually well I in in my

475
00:20:55,230 --> 00:20:52,020
ordinary job I'm looked lecturing at the

476
00:20:59,669 --> 00:20:55,240
University College I have a lot of

477
00:21:04,590 --> 00:20:59,679
students and doing lecturing at at that

478
00:21:09,210 --> 00:21:04,600
College but I'm also the project manager

479
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:09,220
or project histone which started many

480
00:21:14,940 --> 00:21:10,690
years ago

481
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:14,950
and now in my position I am using my

482
00:21:25,850 --> 00:21:20,290
student in the work of finding out what

483
00:21:30,270 --> 00:21:25,860
it can be out up in hostel so and and

484
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:30,280
project estan is it started already back

485
00:21:36,030 --> 00:21:31,890
in 1983

486
00:21:39,210 --> 00:21:36,040
so we during the years we have looked at

487
00:21:42,780 --> 00:21:39,220
a lot of work up there maybe you know

488
00:21:48,540 --> 00:21:42,790
the hostel is a small Norwegian Valley

489
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:48,550
on about 15 kilometers long and about

490
00:21:57,900 --> 00:21:51,610
now it's about hundred inhabitants up

491
00:22:03,710 --> 00:21:57,910
there small valley but even though it's

492
00:22:06,660 --> 00:22:03,720
it's more a lot of sightings of strange

493
00:22:09,810 --> 00:22:06,670
phenomena we call it phenomena some

494
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:09,820
mostly lights different types of lights

495
00:22:27,030 --> 00:22:22,919
object but they are very few compared

496
00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:27,040
with the lights so we in our study we

497
00:22:35,910 --> 00:22:29,710
have focus on the on the lights which

498
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:35,920
are more more easy to see so we can talk

499
00:22:41,620 --> 00:22:37,690
about the the different things which

500
00:22:43,330 --> 00:22:41,630
really is puzzling because

501
00:22:45,570 --> 00:22:43,340
you know if it's a natural phenomenon

502
00:22:48,850 --> 00:22:45,580
it's strange that it would be different

503
00:22:54,250 --> 00:22:48,860
types of sightings that these people do

504
00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:54,260
see and have been actually filmed so but

505
00:23:00,190 --> 00:22:57,650
as far as you did you have an interest

506
00:23:03,159 --> 00:23:00,200
in exploring this topic I know you have

507
00:23:05,470 --> 00:23:03,169
a great science background but I mean

508
00:23:08,230 --> 00:23:05,480
did you have an interest early on and

509
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:08,240
and and you know trying to figure out

510
00:23:14,190 --> 00:23:10,450
what this these type of phenomena are

511
00:23:18,909 --> 00:23:14,200
yes what brought me into the topic it

512
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:18,919
was when I was a student at the

513
00:23:24,250 --> 00:23:23,090
University in Trondheim and in the broad

514
00:23:27,730 --> 00:23:24,260
daylight

515
00:23:33,370 --> 00:23:27,740
I saw a flying disc flying over my head

516
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:33,380
and I saw this very clear and he could

517
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:36,890
see it all details and I was very

518
00:23:45,789 --> 00:23:41,570
surprised and I didn't expect anything

519
00:23:46,779 --> 00:23:45,799
like that so I wanted to figure out what

520
00:23:50,830 --> 00:23:46,789
could that be

521
00:23:55,049 --> 00:23:50,840
and at that time that was back in 1978

522
00:23:59,560 --> 00:23:55,059
before hostel when I was a student

523
00:24:01,990 --> 00:23:59,570
before that I have not been into the UFO

524
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:02,000
topic at all

525
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:05,690
it was strange for me it I haven't been

526
00:24:15,340 --> 00:24:11,090
part of any groups or anything so when I

527
00:24:19,799 --> 00:24:15,350
saw this this flying disc coming up over

528
00:24:25,299 --> 00:24:19,809
my head I started to wonder and I and

529
00:24:32,980 --> 00:24:25,309
that brought me into this topic then

530
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:32,990
that was yeah and that was made a big

531
00:24:39,250 --> 00:24:35,090
impression on me

532
00:24:44,799 --> 00:24:39,260
hest all that started with a lot of

533
00:24:48,899 --> 00:24:44,809
sightings very late 1981 in this mall

534
00:24:54,909 --> 00:24:48,909
Valley is located about 120 kilometres

535
00:24:55,539 --> 00:24:54,919
south of Trondheim city and in the in a

536
00:24:59,440 --> 00:24:55,549
solvent

537
00:25:02,080 --> 00:24:59,450
part of Norway towards the Swedish board

538
00:25:06,159 --> 00:25:02,090
I'm not so very far from the swedish

539
00:25:10,450 --> 00:25:06,169
border and also close to a famous town

540
00:25:14,289 --> 00:25:10,460
eros is a famous innovation town about

541
00:25:23,169 --> 00:25:14,299
35 kilometres north of that well anyway

542
00:25:28,470 --> 00:25:23,179
this small valley in December 1981 the

543
00:25:33,909 --> 00:25:28,480
inhabitants up there started to see many

544
00:25:38,639 --> 00:25:33,919
sightings happen nearly every day they

545
00:25:42,999 --> 00:25:38,649
could see it close to their houses down

546
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:43,009
in the valley down to the river up on

547
00:25:51,220 --> 00:25:47,210
the mountainside hillside and up in the

548
00:25:57,810 --> 00:25:51,230
sky sometimes it moved close to their

549
00:26:02,409 --> 00:25:57,820
houses and so on and the high intensity

550
00:26:08,619 --> 00:26:02,419
started well like December 1981 but it

551
00:26:17,739 --> 00:26:08,629
lasted for years so until it I think it

552
00:26:23,710 --> 00:26:17,749
was late 1984 it decreased lot so but

553
00:26:29,470 --> 00:26:23,720
now it's in the order of 20 observation

554
00:26:35,970 --> 00:26:29,480
a year but at that time in the early 80s

555
00:26:40,599 --> 00:26:35,980
it was 20 observation a week amazing now

556
00:26:43,659 --> 00:26:40,609
it has anything changed geographically

557
00:26:45,700 --> 00:26:43,669
in some type of way that could you know

558
00:26:49,869 --> 00:26:45,710
always looking for you know a possible

559
00:26:51,070 --> 00:26:49,879
answer to these things could have

560
00:26:55,269 --> 00:26:51,080
something have changed that would have

561
00:26:59,289 --> 00:26:55,279
made that happen well we have studied a

562
00:27:03,909 --> 00:26:59,299
lot of what what is happening in that

563
00:27:08,190 --> 00:27:03,919
small valley why Hess tall and well it's

564
00:27:11,380 --> 00:27:08,200
new you think of the Gale physical power

565
00:27:14,470 --> 00:27:11,390
we know it's a lot of minerals in the

566
00:27:17,710 --> 00:27:14,480
valley you have copper you have iron

567
00:27:23,970 --> 00:27:17,720
your sulfur and other kinds of minerals

568
00:27:28,330 --> 00:27:23,980
too and so so the ground is is not

569
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:28,340
ordinary as other places it's lot of

570
00:27:34,210 --> 00:27:32,210
minerals in it but you know there are

571
00:27:38,380 --> 00:27:34,220
other places too

572
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:38,390
which have a lot of minerals in the

573
00:27:44,830 --> 00:27:42,890
ground so it's hard to see as the

574
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:44,840
connection with the minerals in the

575
00:27:51,310 --> 00:27:47,330
ground and these sightings we don't know

576
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:51,320
that but anyway we know that that's one

577
00:27:59,230 --> 00:27:54,170
of the specific things in the has Nile

578
00:28:06,540 --> 00:27:59,240
Valley and we have even now tried to go

579
00:28:10,380 --> 00:28:06,550
into that more more closely by having

580
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:10,390
geophysicist from both France and Greek

581
00:28:17,860 --> 00:28:13,970
coming up to Norway in Hesston

582
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:17,870
and doing investigation to see if we can

583
00:28:25,180 --> 00:28:21,650
come closer to the solution now I know

584
00:28:28,570 --> 00:28:25,190
there are other places in you know the

585
00:28:31,270 --> 00:28:28,580
the world where there are you know

586
00:28:32,710 --> 00:28:31,280
lights like similar to this like for

587
00:28:35,140 --> 00:28:32,720
instance Brown mountain I know there's a

588
00:28:38,050 --> 00:28:35,150
bunch of them but you know Brown

589
00:28:40,780 --> 00:28:38,060
mountain it comes to mind and when you

590
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:40,790
said copper I know that there's a high

591
00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:46,250
copper concentration in that area and

592
00:28:50,710 --> 00:28:49,310
I'm just wondering when you know you

593
00:28:53,140 --> 00:28:50,720
said earlier that people are seeing

594
00:28:57,430 --> 00:28:53,150
different things if this is some type of

595
00:29:01,690 --> 00:28:57,440
energy created from say something you

596
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:01,700
know unknown but natural can you kind of

597
00:29:05,190 --> 00:29:03,410
explain what you meant by you saying

598
00:29:11,500 --> 00:29:05,200
that people would see different things

599
00:29:15,670 --> 00:29:11,510
well that's one of the trouble in

600
00:29:19,630 --> 00:29:15,680
finding one solution is the description

601
00:29:22,030 --> 00:29:19,640
and the behavior of the different lights

602
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:22,040
or the different observation

603
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:25,250
types they're very very different for

604
00:29:33,190 --> 00:29:28,570
instance about the lights you have this

605
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:33,200
flashes which lasts up to maximum a

606
00:29:41,890 --> 00:29:34,010
second

607
00:29:45,940 --> 00:29:41,900
very hard to see but they were strong so

608
00:29:50,490 --> 00:29:45,950
they can be captured on cameras they can

609
00:29:55,740 --> 00:29:50,500
move but mostly there are flashes which

610
00:30:00,840 --> 00:29:55,750
just happen around in the in the valley

611
00:30:05,980 --> 00:30:00,850
and that's one type they're mostly white

612
00:30:08,260 --> 00:30:05,990
sometimes blue and they can be far away

613
00:30:12,970 --> 00:30:08,270
and they can be close and they can be

614
00:30:21,540 --> 00:30:12,980
towards the hillside can be down in the

615
00:30:25,710 --> 00:30:21,550
river and well these flashes is the most

616
00:30:28,540 --> 00:30:25,720
the most observation is of those flashes

617
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:28,550
we wasn't aware of those in the

618
00:30:35,830 --> 00:30:30,890
beginning when we started the first

619
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:35,840
field work back in 1984 but later become

620
00:30:47,620 --> 00:30:42,050
aware of those the second type is yellow

621
00:30:52,140 --> 00:30:47,630
balls of light moving around sometimes

622
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:52,150
slowly sometimes fast the shape can be

623
00:30:59,020 --> 00:30:56,210
all different kinds of shapes not always

624
00:31:04,630 --> 00:30:59,030
round or oval shapes

625
00:31:08,130 --> 00:31:04,640
it can also be other figures and also

626
00:31:11,910 --> 00:31:08,140
sometimes they report that there are

627
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:11,920
smoke they see some balls of light

628
00:31:21,070 --> 00:31:16,930
inside a big light moving around and

629
00:31:25,540 --> 00:31:21,080
sometimes also this balls of mostly

630
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:25,550
yellow light can have other lights onto

631
00:31:32,950 --> 00:31:32,210
it these can move around stand still for

632
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:32,960
minutes

633
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:33,570
move

634
00:31:42,830 --> 00:31:39,530
of slowly around up to two hours and

635
00:31:46,250 --> 00:31:42,840
they can even go down close to the

636
00:31:51,980 --> 00:31:46,260
ground and eliminated the ground beneath

637
00:31:56,780 --> 00:31:51,990
it and and of course I can move fast too

638
00:32:00,290 --> 00:31:56,790
on one such happening we measure the

639
00:32:05,290 --> 00:32:00,300
speed of 30,000 kilometers an hour

640
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:05,300
Wow well this this is the second type

641
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:09,570
that type the second type with the ball

642
00:32:18,860 --> 00:32:13,290
of light and yet mostly yellow moving

643
00:32:22,250 --> 00:32:18,870
around can will split in more types of

644
00:32:26,660 --> 00:32:22,260
course but we have considered to keep

645
00:32:28,130 --> 00:32:26,670
them in one type because well you have

646
00:32:32,270 --> 00:32:28,140
all the different speeds

647
00:32:35,270 --> 00:32:32,280
you have the duration from minutes to

648
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:35,280
hours you have all the different shapes

649
00:32:41,300 --> 00:32:38,850
and you have that so it has been

650
00:32:47,060 --> 00:32:41,310
discussed maybe we should split them in

651
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:47,070
and more types but I I keep it in one

652
00:32:54,980 --> 00:32:51,810
time so so we took that was the second

653
00:32:59,210 --> 00:32:54,990
type and the third type is more when you

654
00:33:01,700 --> 00:32:59,220
have several lights together it seems

655
00:33:05,380 --> 00:33:01,710
that they are connected to something

656
00:33:12,170 --> 00:33:05,390
because when these lights are moving

657
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:12,180
they move together as as if there is on

658
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:18,690
to something and also sometimes when

659
00:33:26,210 --> 00:33:22,650
people have seen this type of light when

660
00:33:29,690 --> 00:33:26,220
it's not completely dark outside they

661
00:33:32,090 --> 00:33:29,700
have explained that these lights it is

662
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:32,100
connected to something they call it a

663
00:33:37,730 --> 00:33:35,490
black object some kind of object which I

664
00:33:40,250 --> 00:33:37,740
don't see when it's completely dark but

665
00:33:45,220 --> 00:33:40,260
when it's not completely dark they can

666
00:33:48,909 --> 00:33:45,230
see that's the third third type of light

667
00:33:53,529 --> 00:33:48,919
so that's a and it's difficult to to

668
00:33:59,860 --> 00:33:53,539
find one one solution who fit all these

669
00:34:01,750 --> 00:33:59,870
types of description so we I thought of

670
00:34:06,250 --> 00:34:01,760
maybe we had we are dealing with

671
00:34:09,339 --> 00:34:06,260
different answers could be we have done

672
00:34:11,409 --> 00:34:09,349
a lot of measurements to and some of

673
00:34:14,619 --> 00:34:11,419
their measurement can point in one

674
00:34:20,379 --> 00:34:14,629
direction and some other measurement can

675
00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:20,389
point in another direction so it's this

676
00:34:29,129 --> 00:34:24,169
hard to understand this that there is

677
00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:29,139
only one solution and one type of light

678
00:34:35,379 --> 00:34:33,649
so now the building that you can see

679
00:34:37,510 --> 00:34:35,389
when you go online you see there's this

680
00:34:41,129 --> 00:34:37,520
building's not too big but there's

681
00:34:44,079 --> 00:34:41,139
equipment in there so what type of

682
00:34:48,639 --> 00:34:44,089
equipment is in there that you're trying

683
00:34:50,609 --> 00:34:48,649
to get you know data from well we first

684
00:34:53,970 --> 00:34:50,619
of all we had the field work back in

685
00:34:58,089 --> 00:34:53,980
1984 with a lot of instruments up there

686
00:35:01,059 --> 00:34:58,099
lost it for nearly one month and we have

687
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:01,069
a similar field work back in January

688
00:35:14,020 --> 00:35:08,930
February 1985 to field work and after

689
00:35:18,510 --> 00:35:14,030
that the intensity decreased a lot so we

690
00:35:23,079 --> 00:35:18,520
didn't have any field work from 1985

691
00:35:27,910 --> 00:35:23,089
until we've we heard that still

692
00:35:31,089 --> 00:35:27,920
continued to be up there I was going up

693
00:35:34,900 --> 00:35:31,099
in the valley back in 1992 eight years

694
00:35:36,460 --> 00:35:34,910
after our field work and they wanted to

695
00:35:40,079 --> 00:35:36,470
know what had happened with our

696
00:35:43,150 --> 00:35:40,089
measurement and when I had a

697
00:35:47,589 --> 00:35:43,160
presentation for the local inhabitants

698
00:35:50,740 --> 00:35:47,599
up in hostel back in 1993 they said to

699
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:50,750
me that well it still continues there is

700
00:35:55,930 --> 00:35:54,890
still lights up there oh I say I haven't

701
00:35:58,520 --> 00:35:55,940
heard anything

702
00:36:01,760 --> 00:35:58,530
well they said

703
00:36:04,790 --> 00:36:01,770
we don't tell it anymore because we were

704
00:36:08,630 --> 00:36:04,800
ridiculed the first year so we don't

705
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:08,640
want to be ridiculed again Wow well

706
00:36:16,910 --> 00:36:12,530
anyway I decided to start project again

707
00:36:22,670 --> 00:36:16,920
and we'll build an automatic station

708
00:36:27,050 --> 00:36:22,680
which was put up in 1998 and it sent

709
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:27,060
data directly on to Internet people can

710
00:36:40,550 --> 00:36:35,210
find the data on www.hsn dot org and

711
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:40,560
every morning new data comes in and also

712
00:36:47,060 --> 00:36:44,370
people can stay home there's live stream

713
00:36:52,690 --> 00:36:47,070
up cameras also up there from this

714
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:52,700
station this station is running but also

715
00:37:01,820 --> 00:36:57,210
we do another thing and that is to bring

716
00:37:07,670 --> 00:37:01,830
students up in the valley with a lot of

717
00:37:12,710 --> 00:37:07,680
instruments as fieldwork as we did in 84

718
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:12,720
and 85 now we use our students and also

719
00:37:22,700 --> 00:37:17,610
some young students as well and they

720
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:22,710
stay up in the valley for 14 days and

721
00:37:31,250 --> 00:37:26,490
one week for 10 days in the Ottoman and

722
00:37:36,050 --> 00:37:31,260
one weekend in the spring and in tents

723
00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:36,060
and with a lot with instruments a lot

724
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:38,730
lots of computers lot of different

725
00:37:45,260 --> 00:37:41,730
cameras we have other instruments -

726
00:37:47,930 --> 00:37:45,270
magnetometer and so on so they do a lot

727
00:37:51,740 --> 00:37:47,940
of measurements during those two weeks

728
00:37:55,220 --> 00:37:51,750
and and the students think that is very

729
00:37:58,010 --> 00:37:55,230
exciting because well sometimes they see

730
00:37:58,960 --> 00:37:58,020
something and well when you see it for

731
00:38:04,640 --> 00:37:58,970
yourself

732
00:38:08,180 --> 00:38:04,650
it it yeah it makes something with you

733
00:38:11,540 --> 00:38:08,190
when you see it yourself I think there's

734
00:38:12,230 --> 00:38:11,550
a film on YouTube where it must be the

735
00:38:14,180 --> 00:38:12,240
students

736
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:14,190
and they're filming it and they're all

737
00:38:17,870 --> 00:38:16,050
like wow you know I mean they're really

738
00:38:20,690 --> 00:38:17,880
you could tell they're they're excited

739
00:38:22,490 --> 00:38:20,700
yes it would be really amazing and there

740
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:22,500
was one you mentioned the different

741
00:38:27,890 --> 00:38:24,690
colors there was one I saw that it was

742
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:27,900
kind of an orange color like an orange

743
00:38:32,089 --> 00:38:29,970
orb and there's there's a lot of people

744
00:38:35,359 --> 00:38:32,099
around the world reporting seeing orange

745
00:38:37,099 --> 00:38:35,369
orbs but I only saw that one and the

746
00:38:41,210 --> 00:38:37,109
rest of them you know looked like you

747
00:38:44,059 --> 00:38:41,220
said we're yellow or white looking now

748
00:38:46,910 --> 00:38:44,069
when you said that there were some that

749
00:38:48,799 --> 00:38:46,920
appeared to be connected or they seemed

750
00:38:52,569 --> 00:38:48,809
to be in sequence as far as their

751
00:38:57,380 --> 00:38:52,579
movements and possibly to a dark object

752
00:39:01,370 --> 00:38:57,390
has there been anyone that's ever you

753
00:39:03,349 --> 00:39:01,380
know considered that their movements and

754
00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:03,359
what were what they're doing is under

755
00:39:12,410 --> 00:39:08,250
intelligent control of any kind well

756
00:39:16,309 --> 00:39:12,420
intelligent control is what it's a

757
00:39:20,359 --> 00:39:16,319
possibility but it's very hard to to

758
00:39:22,730 --> 00:39:20,369
prove if you if you claim it's

759
00:39:25,730 --> 00:39:22,740
intelligent it's very difficult to claim

760
00:39:31,700 --> 00:39:25,740
such kind of things you can maybe

761
00:39:35,809 --> 00:39:31,710
indicate that some can have some kind of

762
00:39:39,950 --> 00:39:35,819
in intelligent but our careful doing

763
00:39:43,250 --> 00:39:39,960
that because it's how how should you

764
00:39:46,460 --> 00:39:43,260
define and intelligent

765
00:39:52,789 --> 00:39:46,470
well we for instance we had the one

766
00:39:57,589 --> 00:39:52,799
happening we have we pointed the light

767
00:40:00,530 --> 00:39:57,599
towards a flashing light and it changed

768
00:40:06,099 --> 00:40:00,540
a flashing frequency really is the laser

769
00:40:10,609 --> 00:40:06,109
beam and it was a response to our laser

770
00:40:13,250 --> 00:40:10,619
and and also one week later you could

771
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:13,260
saw we use a red laser and you can see

772
00:40:19,970 --> 00:40:16,770
that red laser spot on the ground by our

773
00:40:24,620 --> 00:40:19,980
feet moving around and this is far out

774
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:24,630
in countryside so well you can mention

775
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:25,930
some

776
00:40:39,359 --> 00:40:37,210
communication but it's hard to prove and

777
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:39,369
it's difficult and it doesn't happen

778
00:40:48,319 --> 00:40:44,290
that much very few compared with all the

779
00:40:52,380 --> 00:40:48,329
hundreds of sightings we have with light

780
00:40:56,250 --> 00:40:52,390
and which we try to document we try to

781
00:41:00,540 --> 00:40:56,260
get data of these lights to see if we

782
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:00,550
can get closer to a solution I see I

783
00:41:04,319 --> 00:41:02,410
want to talk just a minute about you

784
00:41:07,260 --> 00:41:04,329
know the people that live in the area

785
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:07,270
there that have been witnessing this you

786
00:41:10,559 --> 00:41:08,890
mentioned earlier about ridicule or

787
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:10,569
they'll talk about that a little bit too

788
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:14,530
but has anyone ever reported that they

789
00:41:20,730 --> 00:41:17,170
actually saw something land on the

790
00:41:24,420 --> 00:41:20,740
ground that you're aware of

791
00:41:27,299 --> 00:41:24,430
well yes but compared with all the

792
00:41:32,339 --> 00:41:27,309
hundreds other things

793
00:41:37,370 --> 00:41:32,349
very few mm-hmm I think only one which I

794
00:41:45,630 --> 00:41:42,059
describes such happening so it's not

795
00:41:46,859 --> 00:41:45,640
much now very very very very little of

796
00:41:50,819 --> 00:41:46,869
that kind of things

797
00:41:56,039 --> 00:41:50,829
what about any like trace evidence of of

798
00:42:00,020 --> 00:41:56,049
any any of the happenings there well

799
00:42:05,670 --> 00:42:00,030
that's also very little there is some

800
00:42:10,190 --> 00:42:05,680
passim which can be traced but that can

801
00:42:15,690 --> 00:42:10,200
be maybe something else too it doesn't

802
00:42:22,589 --> 00:42:15,700
necessarily need to be of some craft or

803
00:42:27,630 --> 00:42:22,599
light or anything there is there are

804
00:42:34,230 --> 00:42:27,640
there are a few such such happenings

805
00:42:38,430 --> 00:42:34,240
which are which are strange but we focus

806
00:42:39,900 --> 00:42:38,440
mostly on what's happening most and we

807
00:42:46,950 --> 00:42:39,910
focus also most

808
00:42:49,529 --> 00:42:46,960
what we can get data out oh because well

809
00:42:54,990 --> 00:42:49,539
about the tracks very no one has

810
00:42:57,779 --> 00:42:55,000
reported directly seeing anyone any

811
00:43:01,799 --> 00:42:57,789
object coming down making a track and

812
00:43:06,740 --> 00:43:01,809
going up again no one has told anything

813
00:43:10,710 --> 00:43:06,750
our of such thing to me from his tone

814
00:43:12,269 --> 00:43:10,720
and how early were people reporting

815
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:12,279
seeing something that you're aware of I

816
00:43:17,430 --> 00:43:15,130
mean were there people that say it was

817
00:43:19,079 --> 00:43:17,440
generational you know their father a

818
00:43:23,370 --> 00:43:19,089
grandfather or someone remembered

819
00:43:27,870 --> 00:43:23,380
something way back yes there are some

820
00:43:31,950 --> 00:43:27,880
few stories because when this started

821
00:43:35,970 --> 00:43:31,960
with this high activity people started

822
00:43:38,759 --> 00:43:35,980
to talk about it of course and we have

823
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:38,769
asked all people if they remember in a

824
00:43:47,009 --> 00:43:43,450
and thing from all days and we have got

825
00:43:50,809 --> 00:43:47,019
some few stories from all people who

826
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:50,819
have said that well yes I saw something

827
00:44:00,930 --> 00:43:55,930
for many years ago so and there is also

828
00:44:05,839 --> 00:44:00,940
a couple of written local history books

829
00:44:11,999 --> 00:44:05,849
which indicate some kind of half light

830
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:12,009
and I I would believe that probably it

831
00:44:26,839 --> 00:44:20,170
has always been going on there but the

832
00:44:31,349 --> 00:44:26,849
it was known and became known from

833
00:44:35,370 --> 00:44:31,359
people around the world when it happened

834
00:44:39,450 --> 00:44:35,380
so very much there was a what some name

835
00:44:43,549 --> 00:44:39,460
it you for flap which lasted for well

836
00:44:47,130 --> 00:44:43,559
three years up there yeah you're saying

837
00:44:49,529 --> 00:44:47,140
20 times or something better a week or

838
00:44:51,140 --> 00:44:49,539
something I mean that's that's really

839
00:44:55,010 --> 00:44:51,150
amazing in its

840
00:44:58,520 --> 00:44:55,020
it's good that you know there are people

841
00:45:00,680 --> 00:44:58,530
like you taking this seriously and you

842
00:45:03,050 --> 00:45:00,690
know someone in science and speaking of

843
00:45:06,350 --> 00:45:03,060
that you were talking about ridicule

844
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:06,360
have you yourself ever had taken any

845
00:45:15,590 --> 00:45:09,930
ridicule because of looking into this

846
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:15,600
particular phenomenon and no not what

847
00:45:28,250 --> 00:45:21,170
I'm aware oh not what I'm a barrel or

848
00:45:33,980 --> 00:45:28,260
think of and because I know there is

849
00:45:37,850 --> 00:45:33,990
something I went up there in September

850
00:45:42,140 --> 00:45:37,860
82 the first time and saw it myself so I

851
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:42,150
knew there was something so and if

852
00:45:48,590 --> 00:45:44,970
someone tried to ridicule that well

853
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:48,600
that's their problem it's not mine and I

854
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:52,890
knew there was something and I knew also

855
00:46:01,730 --> 00:45:57,330
that because at the time I was working

856
00:46:06,260 --> 00:46:01,740
at the scientist in in Oslo and when I

857
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:06,270
saw it myself the first time made a big

858
00:46:11,620 --> 00:46:09,330
impression on me because I was far out

859
00:46:18,650 --> 00:46:11,630
in the countryside they were in the void

860
00:46:23,210 --> 00:46:18,660
not in houses around in the in hillside

861
00:46:27,470 --> 00:46:23,220
and then you see this huge light coming

862
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:27,480
and that that you remember that you can

863
00:46:35,810 --> 00:46:30,570
imagine and it's very strong and it

864
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:35,820
moving around and stop and last for one

865
00:46:42,290 --> 00:46:38,850
and a half hour before it disappeared

866
00:46:45,350 --> 00:46:42,300
and so I knew it was something and when

867
00:46:49,550 --> 00:46:45,360
I come back to my work and discuss this

868
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:49,560
with my companions and I was well I was

869
00:47:00,380 --> 00:46:55,370
warned that be careful to involve in UFO

870
00:47:03,290 --> 00:47:00,390
research because that can can destroy

871
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:03,300
your career because

872
00:47:11,810 --> 00:47:07,170
at that time if you if you are studying

873
00:47:16,550 --> 00:47:11,820
UF for you for was not seriously taken

874
00:47:18,740 --> 00:47:16,560
at that time so we later decided is much

875
00:47:22,310 --> 00:47:18,750
more easy to talk about the hostile

876
00:47:25,010 --> 00:47:22,320
phenomena instead of UFO because you

877
00:47:30,740 --> 00:47:25,020
have for the world UFO has been in a way

878
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:30,750
destroyed yeah and and it's not taken

879
00:47:39,830 --> 00:47:35,690
seriously but if you use other words

880
00:47:42,859 --> 00:47:39,840
it's much more easy it's much more the

881
00:47:46,820 --> 00:47:42,869
scientists take it more seriously so we

882
00:47:50,690 --> 00:47:46,830
call it a hostile phenomena from now on

883
00:47:52,430 --> 00:47:50,700
so that helped it's too bad you have to

884
00:47:57,530 --> 00:47:52,440
do that and there's many examples of

885
00:48:00,200 --> 00:47:57,540
that and and you know one of the people

886
00:48:03,740 --> 00:48:00,210
I was trying to get on this show was dr.

887
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:03,750
Richard Haines and he basically told me

888
00:48:08,750 --> 00:48:06,690
flat out that the title of my show is

889
00:48:11,420 --> 00:48:08,760
podcast UFO and he was sorry that he

890
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:11,430
couldn't be on my show and because of

891
00:48:19,580 --> 00:48:14,010
that you know so people are using UAP

892
00:48:24,830 --> 00:48:19,590
and other you know other terms to call

893
00:48:27,020 --> 00:48:24,840
it but UFO data so that is something

894
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:27,030
you're involved in and they actually

895
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:30,090
used that word in that but it's a it's a

896
00:48:37,099 --> 00:48:33,570
group of scientists and of people with a

897
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:37,109
you know PhD that are actually taking

898
00:48:40,359 --> 00:48:39,090
this seriously and looking to collect

899
00:48:44,530 --> 00:48:40,369
data on it

900
00:48:46,730 --> 00:48:44,540
Alexander Wendt Radha ger I think is

901
00:48:48,620 --> 00:48:46,740
involved in that Robert Powell a bunch

902
00:48:52,670 --> 00:48:48,630
of really interesting people including

903
00:48:56,390 --> 00:48:52,680
yourself yes that's important work

904
00:48:59,420 --> 00:48:56,400
they're doing they're scientist and they

905
00:49:03,530 --> 00:48:59,430
won't date a scientist what data and

906
00:49:09,050 --> 00:49:03,540
their work is getting data and that's

907
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:09,060
the name of our UFO data so that fits

908
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:13,170
very well with my thinking to my main

909
00:49:21,589 --> 00:49:16,890
goal is to get the data get

910
00:49:24,979 --> 00:49:21,599
the data which can lead to a solution so

911
00:49:31,209 --> 00:49:24,989
the youthful data group is is very

912
00:49:35,269 --> 00:49:31,219
important and hope we hope we can can

913
00:49:40,940 --> 00:49:35,279
get more from the founding for this that

914
00:49:44,390 --> 00:49:40,950
the outcome can be very very big but but

915
00:49:48,459 --> 00:49:44,400
of course as a high-risk though I'm

916
00:49:52,009 --> 00:49:48,469
putting a lot of money into it because

917
00:49:55,489 --> 00:49:52,019
you never know for sure if you get

918
00:50:01,699 --> 00:49:55,499
debate break through the fight that's

919
00:50:06,469 --> 00:50:01,709
right then the payoff can be enormous so

920
00:50:11,569 --> 00:50:06,479
I would encourage people who want to

921
00:50:15,170 --> 00:50:11,579
contribute with both the project hassle

922
00:50:17,690 --> 00:50:15,180
or the UFO data they should do it and

923
00:50:20,870 --> 00:50:17,700
they have if they look at you for data

924
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:20,880
dot net there they can get in contact

925
00:50:29,029 --> 00:50:26,249
with them there yes I it must be

926
00:50:31,969 --> 00:50:29,039
frustrating to you that more scientists

927
00:50:33,380 --> 00:50:31,979
do not want to find out there they're

928
00:50:36,979 --> 00:50:33,390
not looking to the data and one of the

929
00:50:38,809 --> 00:50:36,989
things hmm you know I've heard other

930
00:50:40,579 --> 00:50:38,819
people say is you know it's something

931
00:50:42,289 --> 00:50:40,589
that can't be solved easily and when

932
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:42,299
something can't be solved easily or

933
00:50:47,359 --> 00:50:45,930
solved within a time limit then you know

934
00:50:50,359 --> 00:50:47,369
there's no such thing as funding for

935
00:50:52,609 --> 00:50:50,369
something like that and so there's a lot

936
00:50:53,839 --> 00:50:52,619
of people privately funding you know the

937
00:50:55,910 --> 00:50:53,849
look into it but do you ever get

938
00:50:58,160 --> 00:50:55,920
frustrated that more people of science

939
00:50:59,769 --> 00:50:58,170
are not you know looking at this in a

940
00:51:03,319 --> 00:50:59,779
serious way

941
00:51:06,759 --> 00:51:03,329
well I know there is a lot of scientists

942
00:51:09,799 --> 00:51:06,769
interested in the topic but of course

943
00:51:14,630 --> 00:51:09,809
scientists need to get funding for the

944
00:51:16,999 --> 00:51:14,640
work and and one of the argument against

945
00:51:21,620 --> 00:51:17,009
it is that you never know and it happens

946
00:51:23,870 --> 00:51:21,630
you're it's a big big risk you can have

947
00:51:30,110 --> 00:51:23,880
the chance to not get any data at all

948
00:51:34,670 --> 00:51:30,120
but if you if you see on another

949
00:51:38,270 --> 00:51:34,680
you have some areas which have a lot of

950
00:51:41,210 --> 00:51:38,280
sightings and even if you are out there

951
00:51:46,660 --> 00:51:41,220
with instrument and you don't don't get

952
00:51:50,380 --> 00:51:46,670
any observation as such but you can do

953
00:51:56,330 --> 00:51:50,390
investigation of the area the

954
00:51:58,910 --> 00:51:56,340
geophysical thing and find out what was

955
00:52:02,120 --> 00:51:58,920
the reason why it happened here but that

956
00:52:05,570 --> 00:52:02,130
can be done and also now you can get

957
00:52:09,490 --> 00:52:05,580
some automatically system you don't need

958
00:52:14,150 --> 00:52:09,500
to be there out in the field personally

959
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:14,160
all the time so you can get some some

960
00:52:19,870 --> 00:52:15,810
equipment which doesn't necessarily

961
00:52:23,900 --> 00:52:19,880
cause of very much money to run

962
00:52:25,460 --> 00:52:23,910
automatically and send data whenever

963
00:52:29,660 --> 00:52:25,470
something happening

964
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:29,670
so that's Creek Beach possibly now one

965
00:52:35,030 --> 00:52:31,530
last thing of one last thought here is

966
00:52:38,090 --> 00:52:35,040
and and then we're gonna we're gonna end

967
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:38,100
this part of the show and that is have

968
00:52:43,580 --> 00:52:40,170
you thought about looking into other

969
00:52:50,930 --> 00:52:43,590
places that are similar to this having

970
00:52:53,570 --> 00:52:50,940
to do comparisons well yes of course

971
00:52:58,550 --> 00:52:53,580
about funding again but I've been lucky

972
00:53:01,640 --> 00:52:58,560
to be being to both Mexico and several

973
00:53:07,580 --> 00:53:01,650
places in the States and also Australia

974
00:53:12,380 --> 00:53:07,590
and have instruments with me look at and

975
00:53:14,510 --> 00:53:12,390
see the salvation at these places too it

976
00:53:17,330 --> 00:53:14,520
seems to be the same thing as in Hesston

977
00:53:21,140 --> 00:53:17,340
so we probably take talking about the

978
00:53:23,420 --> 00:53:21,150
same same reason the same thing there is

979
00:53:26,530 --> 00:53:23,430
some similarities I think there is a lot

980
00:53:31,450 --> 00:53:26,540
of similarities between the different

981
00:53:41,300 --> 00:53:31,460
places in the world where it's happening

982
00:53:43,579 --> 00:53:41,310
but why these places are so active we

983
00:53:46,759 --> 00:53:43,589
haven't found the solution to

984
00:53:50,450 --> 00:53:46,769
that yet and for instance the minerals

985
00:53:52,999 --> 00:53:50,460
in the ground which could we know

986
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:53,009
there's a lot of minerals in the ground

987
00:54:03,009 --> 00:53:56,249
in histone we have also mapped how the

988
00:54:07,609 --> 00:54:03,019
minerals is located in in in the valley

989
00:54:11,989 --> 00:54:07,619
of course we have found out that but

990
00:54:15,890 --> 00:54:11,999
from there to the actual light itself

991
00:54:21,049 --> 00:54:15,900
this is difficult and there's a lot of

992
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:21,059
proposals to or or hypothesis about what

993
00:54:26,299 --> 00:54:22,410
could this be

994
00:54:31,430 --> 00:54:26,309
but as I said one of the problems is

995
00:54:33,469 --> 00:54:31,440
that some habitat Isis can point in one

996
00:54:36,259 --> 00:54:33,479
direction and other one in other

997
00:54:40,370 --> 00:54:36,269
directions so it's hard to find one

998
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:40,380
solution with fit to all well one

999
00:54:47,650 --> 00:54:43,410
possibility is that of course it can be

1000
00:54:51,349 --> 00:54:47,660
different thing we are studying it's not

1001
00:54:53,359 --> 00:54:51,359
necessarily the same solution only one

1002
00:54:57,400 --> 00:54:53,369
solution can be different solutions

1003
00:55:00,950 --> 00:54:57,410
different things but the question is so

1004
00:55:05,839 --> 00:55:00,960
why does all this happen

1005
00:55:08,839 --> 00:55:05,849
in a small valley in Norway mm-hmm so

1006
00:55:11,630 --> 00:55:08,849
that when you say that these all these

1007
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:11,640
different types happen in one rally is

1008
00:55:20,420 --> 00:55:15,930
very easy to say that there must be some

1009
00:55:22,579 --> 00:55:20,430
connection yeah absolutely

1010
00:55:24,859 --> 00:55:22,589
very very interesting well thank you so

1011
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:24,869
much it's been a real pleasure thank you

1012
00:55:32,479 --> 00:55:28,729
for coming back to record rerecord and

1013
00:55:34,729 --> 00:55:32,489
so everyone hang in there we'll be right

1014
00:55:38,839 --> 00:55:34,739
back in a few minutes after this break

1015
00:55:42,739 --> 00:55:38,849
with dr. seth shostack hey Seth how are

1016
00:55:45,319 --> 00:55:42,749
you hi sorry I'm a little late I had 4

1017
00:55:49,039 --> 00:55:45,329
o'clock on my calendar instead of 355

1018
00:55:51,069 --> 00:55:49,049
that's okay you're here and so we're

1019
00:55:55,099 --> 00:55:51,079
we're glad to have you on and I

1020
00:55:56,819 --> 00:55:55,109
appreciate we had we had a number of are

1021
00:55:58,799 --> 00:55:56,829
you back there you are yeah

1022
00:56:01,829 --> 00:55:58,809
yeah yeah we had a we had a number of

1023
00:56:04,170 --> 00:56:01,839
questions come rolling in and you know

1024
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:04,180
one of them already and one of them was

1025
00:56:11,489 --> 00:56:07,450
have you ever heard of the last guest we

1026
00:56:13,019 --> 00:56:11,499
had dr. Earling strand I'm sorry he's

1027
00:56:14,910 --> 00:56:13,029
not a doctor he's got his master's in

1028
00:56:15,989 --> 00:56:14,920
science but Earling strand over in

1029
00:56:18,870 --> 00:56:15,999
Norway have you ever heard of the

1030
00:56:21,029 --> 00:56:18,880
headstone house tell them lights yes

1031
00:56:22,380 --> 00:56:21,039
those I've had him have heard of I

1032
00:56:24,180 --> 00:56:22,390
haven't heard of that particular person

1033
00:56:27,509 --> 00:56:24,190
but I've certainly heard of the lights

1034
00:56:29,279 --> 00:56:27,519
yeah and you know I really enjoyed the

1035
00:56:32,190 --> 00:56:29,289
talk with him because I know you're a

1036
00:56:35,940 --> 00:56:32,200
science-based guy and it's really hard

1037
00:56:37,289 --> 00:56:35,950
for you to talk about speculating of any

1038
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:37,299
kind you know we've been you've been on

1039
00:56:42,839 --> 00:56:41,130
the show before so it's no surprise and

1040
00:56:44,370 --> 00:56:42,849
he doesn't either

1041
00:56:45,599 --> 00:56:44,380
which I thought was nice he just wants

1042
00:56:46,859 --> 00:56:45,609
the data that's what they're trying to

1043
00:56:50,130 --> 00:56:46,869
gather they're trying to figure out what

1044
00:56:52,620 --> 00:56:50,140
they are you know they're very possibly

1045
00:56:55,289 --> 00:56:52,630
could be something you know a natural

1046
00:56:57,660 --> 00:56:55,299
phenomena but it's awful hard to say

1047
00:57:01,109 --> 00:56:57,670
when there's different things happening

1048
00:57:03,779 --> 00:57:01,119
but anyway this you haven't been on for

1049
00:57:08,339 --> 00:57:03,789
a number of years so I wanted to welcome

1050
00:57:09,930 --> 00:57:08,349
you back and can you give the listener

1051
00:57:10,469 --> 00:57:09,940
that I have a lot of new listeners to

1052
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:10,479
the show too

1053
00:57:17,489 --> 00:57:12,729
just a quick nutshell of your background

1054
00:57:19,289 --> 00:57:17,499
and what got you interested in and in

1055
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:19,299
SETI and looking out there for

1056
00:57:25,380 --> 00:57:22,930
intelligent life well my background is

1057
00:57:28,650 --> 00:57:25,390
in physics and astronomy

1058
00:57:31,319 --> 00:57:28,660
I've studied both and I have degrees in

1059
00:57:33,269 --> 00:57:31,329
both I was actually involved in what's

1060
00:57:35,699 --> 00:57:33,279
called radio astronomy for many many

1061
00:57:38,910 --> 00:57:35,709
years in which we were doing research on

1062
00:57:41,789 --> 00:57:38,920
well galaxies actually and I I measured

1063
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:41,799
the rotation of galaxies that was my my

1064
00:57:45,209 --> 00:57:43,930
thesis work and I continued that for a

1065
00:57:46,769 --> 00:57:45,219
couple of years even afterwards because

1066
00:57:49,170 --> 00:57:46,779
the galaxies were all rotating a little

1067
00:57:50,370 --> 00:57:49,180
bit too fast and that was an indication

1068
00:57:52,709 --> 00:57:50,380
that there was something that we now

1069
00:57:54,630 --> 00:57:52,719
call dark matter in these galaxies so

1070
00:57:58,559 --> 00:57:54,640
radio astronomy but of course the

1071
00:58:01,469 --> 00:57:58,569
techniques of radio astronomy are rather

1072
00:58:03,900 --> 00:58:01,479
similar to the techniques used in SETI

1073
00:58:07,109 --> 00:58:03,910
so when I moved to California after

1074
00:58:09,420 --> 00:58:07,119
living in Europe for a while I I went to

1075
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:09,430
a party over in Berkeley and some people

1076
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:10,570
saw me there there were

1077
00:58:14,580 --> 00:58:12,850
working in SETI and they called me up

1078
00:58:16,380 --> 00:58:14,590
and asked me if I wanted a job at this

1079
00:58:19,260 --> 00:58:16,390
SETI Institute and Here I am

1080
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:19,270
Wow I bet I betcha that was exciting for

1081
00:58:26,390 --> 00:58:24,730
you really well yeah it was I mean I as

1082
00:58:29,070 --> 00:58:26,400
it turned out I happen to have had a

1083
00:58:31,020 --> 00:58:29,080
dwelling that was only you know two

1084
00:58:33,180 --> 00:58:31,030
miles from the SETI Institute so not

1085
00:58:35,340 --> 00:58:33,190
only was it exciting it also had the

1086
00:58:37,470 --> 00:58:35,350
benefit of being convenient oh wow

1087
00:58:40,140 --> 00:58:37,480
and that's in is is that mountain view

1088
00:58:42,140 --> 00:58:40,150
it is in Mountain View a map view is

1089
00:58:44,910 --> 00:58:42,150
probably most famous these days for

1090
00:58:48,750 --> 00:58:44,920
Google Google is headquartered here yeah

1091
00:58:53,340 --> 00:58:48,760
yeah and I don't think it's a base not

1092
00:58:55,020 --> 00:58:53,350
there is it right near eBay is fairly

1093
00:58:57,240 --> 00:58:55,030
nearby the last time I saw an eBay

1094
00:58:58,770 --> 00:58:57,250
building was down in San Jose though

1095
00:59:00,390 --> 00:58:58,780
that's about ten miles from where I'm

1096
00:59:04,290 --> 00:59:00,400
sitting that's right that's right

1097
00:59:06,450 --> 00:59:04,300
so I also I have become a big fan of

1098
00:59:09,050 --> 00:59:06,460
your podcast we will talk about that a

1099
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:09,060
little bit but big-picture science I

1100
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:11,410
absolutely love it you get some

1101
00:59:17,610 --> 00:59:14,890
fantastic guests as well well produced

1102
00:59:19,980 --> 00:59:17,620
very high quality and really really

1103
00:59:23,780 --> 00:59:19,990
really interesting topics and I have to

1104
00:59:27,270 --> 00:59:23,790
say I listen to about five five or so

1105
00:59:29,790 --> 00:59:27,280
podcasts that's about it and in your

1106
00:59:33,030 --> 00:59:29,800
podcast is one of them yeah I always

1107
00:59:36,060 --> 00:59:33,040
loved your sense of humor too and that's

1108
00:59:39,900 --> 00:59:36,070
what keeps me awake Martin now I

1109
00:59:43,230 --> 00:59:39,910
remember you and I debated UFOs I was

1110
00:59:45,750 --> 00:59:43,240
very ice only I think it was I'm up to

1111
00:59:48,060 --> 00:59:45,760
370 shows or something like that at this

1112
00:59:50,970 --> 00:59:48,070
point but I mean I was in I think like

1113
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:50,980
40 or 60 shows something like that and I

1114
00:59:55,710 --> 00:59:53,530
was still green so to speak not to say

1115
00:59:57,510 --> 00:59:55,720
that I could debate any better better

1116
00:59:59,100 --> 00:59:57,520
but you were you're a very good debater

1117
01:00:02,340 --> 00:59:59,110
when it comes to this subject we getting

1118
01:00:04,260 --> 01:00:02,350
into a little bit of that later on but

1119
01:00:06,090 --> 01:00:04,270
you know some people are have asked

1120
01:00:08,900 --> 01:00:06,100
questions and I'm gonna try to take

1121
01:00:12,330 --> 01:00:08,910
calls later but one of the questions was

1122
01:00:14,910 --> 01:00:12,340
who funds said he and I know originally

1123
01:00:17,010 --> 01:00:14,920
I believe I should say that NASA did

1124
01:00:17,910 --> 01:00:17,020
originally and now it's private funding

1125
01:00:21,270 --> 01:00:17,920
is that correct

1126
01:00:23,850 --> 01:00:21,280
well there was a NASA SETI program and

1127
01:00:24,510 --> 01:00:23,860
that began in the 1970s there had

1128
01:00:26,460 --> 01:00:24,520
certainly been

1129
01:00:29,820 --> 01:00:26,470
said he experiments before that and they

1130
01:00:32,850 --> 01:00:29,830
were just sort of informal efforts made

1131
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:32,860
by the radio and astronomers involved I

1132
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:33,970
mean I did it myself

1133
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:37,570
in the 1970s I'd be you know at a radio

1134
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:40,090
Observatory making observations and you

1135
01:00:44,580 --> 01:00:41,650
know I had some telescope time and then

1136
01:00:46,470 --> 01:00:44,590
ran out of galaxies because the galaxies

1137
01:00:48,630 --> 01:00:46,480
are not equally distributed across the

1138
01:00:51,810 --> 01:00:48,640
sky from the standpoint of a radio

1139
01:00:53,070 --> 01:00:51,820
telescope so I would occasionally look

1140
01:00:54,810 --> 01:00:53,080
up the coordinates of nearby star

1141
01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:54,820
systems and just point the antennas in

1142
01:00:58,560 --> 01:00:56,530
those directions just to see if there

1143
01:01:01,080 --> 01:00:58,570
was anything there so those informal

1144
01:01:04,260 --> 01:01:01,090
accounts or efforts I should say were

1145
01:01:07,260 --> 01:01:04,270
were you know the majority of early SETI

1146
01:01:09,270 --> 01:01:07,270
work but finally a gentleman here at the

1147
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:09,280
NASA Ames Research Center a couple of

1148
01:01:14,220 --> 01:01:11,250
miles from where I'm sitting actually

1149
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:14,230
started to get NASA involved in it and

1150
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:17,410
when I joined the SETI Institute in 1990

1151
01:01:26,190 --> 01:01:22,450
it was a NASA program that ended in 1993

1152
01:01:30,030 --> 01:01:26,200
however and and how was the transition

1153
01:01:31,890 --> 01:01:30,040
over to this private funding so it's

1154
01:01:35,100 --> 01:01:31,900
very yeah very difficult very difficult

1155
01:01:37,230 --> 01:01:35,110
because although the the NASA SETI

1156
01:01:40,110 --> 01:01:37,240
program was never large it was never

1157
01:01:43,050 --> 01:01:40,120
more than one one thousandth of the NASA

1158
01:01:45,750 --> 01:01:43,060
budget that was still a lot of money

1159
01:01:47,970 --> 01:01:45,760
compared to what we could raise from

1160
01:01:49,950 --> 01:01:47,980
private you know donors which is what we

1161
01:01:51,570 --> 01:01:49,960
do now so there's very little funding

1162
01:01:53,970 --> 01:01:51,580
for SETI the big problem was SETI people

1163
01:01:55,710 --> 01:01:53,980
always ask you know what's the the thing

1164
01:01:59,160 --> 01:01:55,720
you would like to fix most about SETI

1165
01:02:02,250 --> 01:01:59,170
it's the funding of course and and how

1166
01:02:05,580 --> 01:02:02,260
do you how do you do that I mean one of

1167
01:02:07,260 --> 01:02:05,590
the one of the things that and a lot of

1168
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:07,270
people that are and there are some

1169
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:08,890
science-based people that are trying to

1170
01:02:14,340 --> 01:02:11,530
figure out what people are seeing you

1171
01:02:17,250 --> 01:02:14,350
know here on earth and the research

1172
01:02:19,590 --> 01:02:17,260
money is so difficult to get for a

1173
01:02:23,430 --> 01:02:19,600
number of reasons and the number one

1174
01:02:27,930 --> 01:02:23,440
reason or besides the ridicule factor is

1175
01:02:31,140 --> 01:02:27,940
that they need a time like a date of

1176
01:02:35,430 --> 01:02:31,150
solving an order to get funding you hear

1177
01:02:37,020 --> 01:02:35,440
that and so what do you how do you I

1178
01:02:38,430 --> 01:02:37,030
don't want to say dangle a carrot but

1179
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:38,440
how do you get someone

1180
01:02:43,590 --> 01:02:40,690
interested in saying you fund this

1181
01:02:45,570 --> 01:02:43,600
because we think that we are going to

1182
01:02:47,820 --> 01:02:45,580
blah blah blah how do you how do you

1183
01:02:51,980 --> 01:02:47,830
approach that well all we can tell them

1184
01:02:54,690 --> 01:02:51,990
is this there is the technology today to

1185
01:02:57,600 --> 01:02:54,700
find signals whether they're radio

1186
01:02:58,590 --> 01:02:57,610
signals or flashing laser beams or

1187
01:03:01,320 --> 01:02:58,600
something we now have the technology

1188
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:01,330
that could find these things at least at

1189
01:03:08,370 --> 01:03:05,290
a relatively reasonable intensity you

1190
01:03:10,290 --> 01:03:08,380
know strength and no previous generation

1191
01:03:13,530 --> 01:03:10,300
has been able to do that so it'd be a

1192
01:03:16,020 --> 01:03:13,540
little crazy not to at least try can we

1193
01:03:17,460 --> 01:03:16,030
guarantee success no there's no way we

1194
01:03:19,620 --> 01:03:17,470
can guarantee success but on the other

1195
01:03:21,540 --> 01:03:19,630
hand Chris Columbus couldn't guarantee

1196
01:03:23,700 --> 01:03:21,550
success either it's a little unclear

1197
01:03:25,950 --> 01:03:23,710
whether he actually had success but at

1198
01:03:27,930 --> 01:03:25,960
least you could say try and at some

1199
01:03:28,740 --> 01:03:27,940
point you have the ability to try the

1200
01:03:32,550 --> 01:03:28,750
other thing that I

1201
01:03:36,990 --> 01:03:32,560
I believe plays a role here is that SETI

1202
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:37,000
is dependent largely on computers right

1203
01:03:41,550 --> 01:03:39,130
compute power is very important if you

1204
01:03:43,830 --> 01:03:41,560
have more compute power you can look at

1205
01:03:45,540 --> 01:03:43,840
the sky very much more quickly that sort

1206
01:03:48,990 --> 01:03:45,550
of thing and it turns out that the speed

1207
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:49,000
of SETI experiments keeps growing very

1208
01:03:54,450 --> 01:03:52,330
rapidly actually exponentially so that's

1209
01:03:56,310 --> 01:03:54,460
another encouragement to funders because

1210
01:03:58,350 --> 01:03:56,320
you know whatever we're doing this year

1211
01:04:01,110 --> 01:03:58,360
really Dwarfs everything that was done

1212
01:04:04,500 --> 01:04:01,120
up until this year so it's a you know

1213
01:04:09,750 --> 01:04:04,510
it's a very rapidly improving experiment

1214
01:04:12,510 --> 01:04:09,760
do you the SETI work in concert with say

1215
01:04:18,060 --> 01:04:12,520
events or possible events or for

1216
01:04:19,410 --> 01:04:18,070
instance I remember when let's see try

1217
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:19,420
to remember what it was called like the

1218
01:04:23,970 --> 01:04:21,490
Dyson Sphere they were talking about

1219
01:04:26,550 --> 01:04:23,980
that yeah probably a B star that's at a

1220
01:04:29,550 --> 01:04:26,560
B star does SETI work in concert with

1221
01:04:31,830 --> 01:04:29,560
you know revelations like that

1222
01:04:33,990 --> 01:04:31,840
in other words like there could be some

1223
01:04:38,010 --> 01:04:34,000
type of activity in this direction and

1224
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:38,020
you focus on that sure we we yes of

1225
01:04:43,010 --> 01:04:40,690
course I mean if you find a an object in

1226
01:04:46,230 --> 01:04:43,020
the sky in the course of you know

1227
01:04:48,060 --> 01:04:46,240
astronomy I mean cabby star was actually

1228
01:04:50,940 --> 01:04:48,070
in the observing list for the Kepler

1229
01:04:52,290 --> 01:04:50,950
space telescope and what was observed

1230
01:04:55,650 --> 01:04:52,300
was that that

1231
01:04:57,330 --> 01:04:55,660
star dimmed occasionally not regularly

1232
01:04:58,980 --> 01:04:57,340
if it regularly dim you figure okay

1233
01:05:01,430 --> 01:04:58,990
there's a planet going around it causing

1234
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:01,440
it to dim but this dimming was very

1235
01:05:07,530 --> 01:05:04,450
erratic and in one instance it dimmed by

1236
01:05:10,380 --> 01:05:07,540
22% that's enormous that's not a planet

1237
01:05:12,270 --> 01:05:10,390
no planet can dim was star by 22% by

1238
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:12,280
passing in front of it I mean even

1239
01:05:18,530 --> 01:05:14,410
Jupiter passing in front of the Sun you

1240
01:05:21,450 --> 01:05:18,540
know it dims it by by less than 1% right

1241
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:21,460
so you know it wasn't a planet and the

1242
01:05:25,740 --> 01:05:23,770
question was what was it and Jason

1243
01:05:28,410 --> 01:05:25,750
Wright who's an astronomer at the Penn

1244
01:05:30,090 --> 01:05:28,420
State suggested well I mean it could be

1245
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:30,100
an alien mega-structure that maybe

1246
01:05:33,750 --> 01:05:31,930
there's a planet there with some very

1247
01:05:36,330 --> 01:05:33,760
sophisticated beings on it that have

1248
01:05:38,910 --> 01:05:36,340
built some giant construction in orbit

1249
01:05:42,060 --> 01:05:38,920
around their star and that occasionally

1250
01:05:46,290 --> 01:05:42,070
blocks the light so of course we another

1251
01:05:47,850 --> 01:05:46,300
other another SETI group also you know

1252
01:05:49,260 --> 01:05:47,860
pointed our antennas in the direction of

1253
01:05:50,940 --> 01:05:49,270
tabi star to see if there was anything

1254
01:05:52,110 --> 01:05:50,950
coming from there we didn't find

1255
01:05:53,940 --> 01:05:52,120
anything of course that doesn't prove

1256
01:05:56,700 --> 01:05:53,950
that they're not there but as it turns

1257
01:05:58,640 --> 01:05:56,710
out the whole explanation kind of became

1258
01:06:01,530 --> 01:05:58,650
a little more obvious about a year later

1259
01:06:04,770 --> 01:06:01,540
when people with big conventional

1260
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:04,780
telescopes saw that the the dimming was

1261
01:06:10,620 --> 01:06:08,410
very very red compared to the the color

1262
01:06:12,510 --> 01:06:10,630
of the star and that meant it was dust

1263
01:06:16,620 --> 01:06:12,520
so it's just you know something natural

1264
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:16,630
it's not et oh well it's still

1265
01:06:21,600 --> 01:06:19,450
interesting and now we have the James

1266
01:06:24,270 --> 01:06:21,610
Webb is going to be going out there at

1267
01:06:26,610 --> 01:06:24,280
some point these are just more and more

1268
01:06:29,550 --> 01:06:26,620
tools Kepler made so many discoveries

1269
01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:29,560
you did a show about that recently where

1270
01:06:33,330 --> 01:06:31,570
you're in a big picture of science where

1271
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:33,340
you're talking about you know that the

1272
01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:35,530
discovery of earth-like planets and the

1273
01:06:40,950 --> 01:06:38,050
possibility of the numbers were just

1274
01:06:44,100 --> 01:06:40,960
staggering and just this galaxy alone

1275
01:06:48,810 --> 01:06:44,110
and speaking of this galaxy alone does

1276
01:06:51,630 --> 01:06:48,820
SETI focus on this galaxy or does it

1277
01:06:53,550 --> 01:06:51,640
actually look around I mean there must

1278
01:06:55,830 --> 01:06:53,560
be just a even though you've been doing

1279
01:06:59,220 --> 01:06:55,840
this for years it's probably a very tiny

1280
01:07:01,500 --> 01:06:59,230
percentage of the you know universe that

1281
01:07:03,090 --> 01:07:01,510
you're pointing at right well yes that's

1282
01:07:05,100 --> 01:07:03,100
when people ask why haven't you found

1283
01:07:05,940 --> 01:07:05,110
anything I mean one possibility for why

1284
01:07:07,410 --> 01:07:05,950
we haven't found any

1285
01:07:09,660 --> 01:07:07,420
and of course that's a difference

1286
01:07:11,670 --> 01:07:09,670
between SETI in the UFO community we

1287
01:07:15,420 --> 01:07:11,680
don't claim that we found anything so

1288
01:07:17,609 --> 01:07:15,430
far the I think the the most rational

1289
01:07:19,530 --> 01:07:17,619
explanation for that is simply the

1290
01:07:21,299 --> 01:07:19,540
sample size is too small I mean we've

1291
01:07:23,940 --> 01:07:21,309
only looked at a few thousand star

1292
01:07:25,890 --> 01:07:23,950
systems that's pretty small they're you

1293
01:07:28,770 --> 01:07:25,900
know a hundred billion star systems at

1294
01:07:31,740 --> 01:07:28,780
least in our galaxy and that means

1295
01:07:34,140 --> 01:07:31,750
they're probably like I don't know a

1296
01:07:36,270 --> 01:07:34,150
trillion at least a trillion planets in

1297
01:07:38,940 --> 01:07:36,280
our galaxy but they're 2 trillion other

1298
01:07:42,059 --> 01:07:38,950
galaxies and one could consider all of

1299
01:07:44,670 --> 01:07:42,069
those as being possible habitats or for

1300
01:07:46,079 --> 01:07:44,680
life of some sort but of course if you

1301
01:07:47,910 --> 01:07:46,089
look at other galaxies you're looking

1302
01:07:49,740 --> 01:07:47,920
very much farther away and when you look

1303
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:49,750
in our own galaxy and that means that

1304
01:07:54,450 --> 01:07:52,690
any signals and so forth are a probably

1305
01:07:55,530 --> 01:07:54,460
a little bit less motivated why would

1306
01:07:57,750 --> 01:07:55,540
you want to send a signal through a

1307
01:08:00,030 --> 01:07:57,760
galaxy ten million light-years away and

1308
01:08:02,190 --> 01:08:00,040
secondly of course the signals would be

1309
01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:02,200
much weaker so we tend to concentrate on

1310
01:08:08,190 --> 01:08:04,770
the star systems in our own galaxy and

1311
01:08:11,039 --> 01:08:08,200
how sensitive is the equipment I mean

1312
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:11,049
how like to say if we're you're

1313
01:08:15,299 --> 01:08:13,210
projecting a signal like safe from here

1314
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:15,309
from Earth and by the time it hits our

1315
01:08:19,410 --> 01:08:17,410
nearest star how weak of these signals

1316
01:08:21,809 --> 01:08:19,420
and they must be very weak with all the

1317
01:08:23,599 --> 01:08:21,819
distance well the distance of course

1318
01:08:26,340 --> 01:08:23,609
does weaken them in the same sense that

1319
01:08:28,890 --> 01:08:26,350
you know distance weakens the the beam

1320
01:08:31,289 --> 01:08:28,900
from your laser pointer I mean it's the

1321
01:08:33,300 --> 01:08:31,299
same degree of weakening it goes as the

1322
01:08:36,209 --> 01:08:33,310
square of the distance but on the other

1323
01:08:37,950 --> 01:08:36,219
hand I mean radio technology is very

1324
01:08:40,110 --> 01:08:37,960
very sensitive and if you have a

1325
01:08:43,140 --> 01:08:40,120
transmitter with maybe a hundred

1326
01:08:45,059 --> 01:08:43,150
thousand watt power behind it and that's

1327
01:08:46,740 --> 01:08:45,069
not really so much I mean there there

1328
01:08:49,229 --> 01:08:46,750
are transmitters that big even here on

1329
01:08:51,689 --> 01:08:49,239
earth and you you know hook that up with

1330
01:08:54,689 --> 01:08:51,699
a big antenna then you can make a beam

1331
01:08:56,840 --> 01:08:54,699
that is intense enough to pick up from

1332
01:08:58,740 --> 01:08:56,850
hundreds of light-years away even with

1333
01:09:00,360 --> 01:08:58,750
equipment that really isn't much

1334
01:09:04,229 --> 01:09:00,370
different from the kind of stuff we

1335
01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:04,239
build ourselves so even now you know

1336
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:07,210
only a century after Marconi if you will

1337
01:09:13,559 --> 01:09:10,690
and Tesla we have radio technology that

1338
01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:13,569
could communicate between the stars and

1339
01:09:19,410 --> 01:09:18,370
what did you think about the people that

1340
01:09:22,979 --> 01:09:19,420
have

1341
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:22,989
said oh god I'm just a little just can't

1342
01:09:28,140 --> 01:09:25,690
pull his name out right now recently

1343
01:09:32,490 --> 01:09:28,150
passed away and he said we do not want

1344
01:09:34,979 --> 01:09:32,500
to connect with alien you know aliens

1345
01:09:36,900 --> 01:09:34,989
out there Who am I thinking of in the

1346
01:09:38,370 --> 01:09:36,910
wheelchair probably Stephen Hawking

1347
01:09:40,860 --> 01:09:38,380
that's exactly as I don't know I

1348
01:09:43,079 --> 01:09:40,870
couldn't think of his name terrible but

1349
01:09:46,289 --> 01:09:43,089
yeah what did you think about his saying

1350
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:46,299
you know we don't want to be you know he

1351
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:48,730
was afraid that they're hostile and

1352
01:09:53,910 --> 01:09:51,130
that's again that's a speculation of

1353
01:09:55,919 --> 01:09:53,920
course well I think what Stephen Hawking

1354
01:09:57,689 --> 01:09:55,929
was saying was not to do SETI

1355
01:10:00,000 --> 01:09:57,699
because said he is totally passive we're

1356
01:10:02,490 --> 01:10:00,010
just listening right there's clearly no

1357
01:10:04,709 --> 01:10:02,500
danger in listening yeah aliens no idea

1358
01:10:06,810 --> 01:10:04,719
whether you're listening or not but what

1359
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:06,820
he was referring to was the possibility

1360
01:10:12,270 --> 01:10:09,850
that that you transmitted either de novo

1361
01:10:14,010 --> 01:10:12,280
by saying I'm just gonna send out a

1362
01:10:16,169 --> 01:10:14,020
message hi we're the Earthlings get in

1363
01:10:19,860 --> 01:10:16,179
touch which some people have done and

1364
01:10:21,630 --> 01:10:19,870
want to do or you do that if you find a

1365
01:10:23,310 --> 01:10:21,640
signal and you know you should respond

1366
01:10:25,650 --> 01:10:23,320
to and say hey we just picked up

1367
01:10:27,660 --> 01:10:25,660
something from your world you know love

1368
01:10:29,340 --> 01:10:27,670
to start a conversation whatever and all

1369
01:10:30,810 --> 01:10:29,350
he said was there well since you don't

1370
01:10:32,669 --> 01:10:30,820
know what's at the other end

1371
01:10:35,010 --> 01:10:32,679
maybe you should be careful now that was

1372
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:35,020
not a new idea that ideas been kicked

1373
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:37,330
around for at least two decades and of

1374
01:10:41,310 --> 01:10:39,010
course when Stephen Hawking weighs in on

1375
01:10:42,990 --> 01:10:41,320
it everybody pays attention whereas when

1376
01:10:45,330 --> 01:10:43,000
other people have talked about it at

1377
01:10:48,510 --> 01:10:45,340
length you know not necessarily so much

1378
01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:48,520
attention but I don't buy any of that

1379
01:10:54,030 --> 01:10:51,370
myself I mean yes you don't know whether

1380
01:10:55,709 --> 01:10:54,040
the aliens are hostile or otherwise you

1381
01:10:58,110 --> 01:10:55,719
can make guesses but do you want to run

1382
01:10:59,939 --> 01:10:58,120
the risk of destroying earth because you

1383
01:11:01,979 --> 01:10:59,949
guessed wrong I mean that doesn't sound

1384
01:11:03,930 --> 01:11:01,989
like a good idea but on the other hand

1385
01:11:08,910 --> 01:11:03,940
we're broadcasting into space all the

1386
01:11:10,410 --> 01:11:08,920
time our radars are very strong and and

1387
01:11:13,410 --> 01:11:10,420
you know a lot of the sky is covered

1388
01:11:16,830 --> 01:11:13,420
with radars so you know it's too late to

1389
01:11:20,070 --> 01:11:16,840
worry about it and you know the

1390
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:20,080
technology that you're looking for I

1391
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:21,730
remember in a conversation when we were

1392
01:11:27,780 --> 01:11:24,010
talking the very first time I said

1393
01:11:30,090 --> 01:11:27,790
something like how would you know that

1394
01:11:32,020 --> 01:11:30,100
a silver civilization out there would be

1395
01:11:34,930 --> 01:11:32,030
transmitting as something that you could

1396
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:34,940
actually pick up and I think your your

1397
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:36,770
your phrase our one of the things you

1398
01:11:40,930 --> 01:11:39,050
said was it's better than doing nothing

1399
01:11:42,790 --> 01:11:40,940
it's better than looking for nothing and

1400
01:11:45,460 --> 01:11:42,800
I had I had to agree with you yeah it's

1401
01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:45,470
definitely better than you know not not

1402
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:47,330
trying to figure it out what is the type

1403
01:11:53,620 --> 01:11:51,170
of range of signals that SETI is now

1404
01:11:55,090 --> 01:11:53,630
looking in I mean you're saying your

1405
01:11:58,570 --> 01:11:55,100
technology is growing is does that mean

1406
01:12:02,890 --> 01:11:58,580
the range the spectrum of the signals

1407
01:12:06,670 --> 01:12:02,900
have changed as well well I think what

1408
01:12:09,130 --> 01:12:06,680
you're trying to ask is you know what do

1409
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:09,140
we look for I mean yeah it is that the

1410
01:12:13,930 --> 01:12:11,810
question yeah I know I'm a layman so

1411
01:12:16,420 --> 01:12:13,940
yeah maybe I didn't yeah get it across

1412
01:12:19,470 --> 01:12:16,430
but yeah basically what exactly are you

1413
01:12:24,100 --> 01:12:19,480
are you trying to what type of

1414
01:12:27,010 --> 01:12:24,110
technology are you looking for well when

1415
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:27,020
it comes to radio SETI which is mostly

1416
01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:29,210
what we do that maybe historical more

1417
01:12:34,630 --> 01:12:32,170
than anything else we look for you know

1418
01:12:37,030 --> 01:12:34,640
signals that are in the microwave band

1419
01:12:39,550 --> 01:12:37,040
of the spectrum which is roughly from a

1420
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:39,560
thousand megahertz up to 10,000

1421
01:12:44,350 --> 01:12:42,650
megahertz maybe 15,000 megahertz they're

1422
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:44,360
good reasons in both physics and

1423
01:12:49,810 --> 01:12:46,370
astronomy well why that might be the

1424
01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:49,820
best place to to look for signals and we

1425
01:12:53,850 --> 01:12:52,130
look for signals that are narrowband in

1426
01:12:56,470 --> 01:12:53,860
other words they're confined in

1427
01:12:58,360 --> 01:12:56,480
frequency there at one spot on the radio

1428
01:13:00,880 --> 01:12:58,370
dial if you will just the way your

1429
01:13:02,710 --> 01:13:00,890
favorite the you know talk show host is

1430
01:13:05,470 --> 01:13:02,720
it one spot on the radio dial

1431
01:13:08,050 --> 01:13:05,480
you know it's 104.5 megahertz on the

1432
01:13:10,870 --> 01:13:08,060
dial whatever it is and that's the

1433
01:13:13,390 --> 01:13:10,880
that's the indicator that that signal

1434
01:13:15,460 --> 01:13:13,400
was produced by transmitter if you have

1435
01:13:17,860 --> 01:13:15,470
natural radio transmitters which there

1436
01:13:19,210 --> 01:13:17,870
are plenty of I mean pulsar has quasars

1437
01:13:21,580 --> 01:13:19,220
everybody knows about these things

1438
01:13:24,070 --> 01:13:21,590
they're all over the dial they're not

1439
01:13:26,350 --> 01:13:24,080
really restricted to any one part of the

1440
01:13:29,050 --> 01:13:26,360
dial so it's easy to tell that's a

1441
01:13:31,510 --> 01:13:29,060
signal is coming from some somebody's

1442
01:13:32,500 --> 01:13:31,520
technology somebody's engineering it's a

1443
01:13:37,750 --> 01:13:32,510
transmitter

1444
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:37,760
if it's localized in frequency I see

1445
01:13:40,990 --> 01:13:39,050
okay

1446
01:13:43,660 --> 01:13:41,000
did you happen to catch the article

1447
01:13:44,169 --> 01:13:43,670
recently that it was a I think it was a

1448
01:13:50,260 --> 01:13:44,179
former

1449
01:13:52,479 --> 01:13:50,270
like that he believes that there is

1450
01:13:54,970 --> 01:13:52,489
going to be announcement soon or sooner

1451
01:13:57,459 --> 01:13:54,980
or later or that we actually know I

1452
01:13:58,959 --> 01:13:57,469
think he said something like we actually

1453
01:14:02,200 --> 01:13:58,969
have a really good idea that there's

1454
01:14:03,580 --> 01:14:02,210
been signs of life found on Mars did you

1455
01:14:06,580 --> 01:14:03,590
happen to read that catch that

1456
01:14:09,010 --> 01:14:06,590
well I'm again I'm not sure that I got

1457
01:14:10,660 --> 01:14:09,020
the reference correct here but you may

1458
01:14:12,939 --> 01:14:10,670
be referring to the director of

1459
01:14:16,510 --> 01:14:12,949
planetary exploration at NASA that's Jim

1460
01:14:19,870 --> 01:14:16,520
Green and he claimed that we may find

1461
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:19,880
life on Mars within 5 years but we may

1462
01:14:26,620 --> 01:14:24,050
not be prepared that's it that's it yeah

1463
01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:26,630
well yes I read that when it first came

1464
01:14:30,820 --> 01:14:28,130
out and I just didn't have it up in

1465
01:14:32,410 --> 01:14:30,830
front of me yeah no I was the NBC asked

1466
01:14:35,200 --> 01:14:32,420
me to write a commentary on that which I

1467
01:14:39,250 --> 01:14:35,210
did and I actually passed it by Jim

1468
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:39,260
Green before I sent it to NBC but I know

1469
01:14:44,229 --> 01:14:42,050
Jim Green fairly well so that was I hope

1470
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:44,239
not an imposition on him but what he was

1471
01:14:48,100 --> 01:14:45,650
saying was this I think it was largely

1472
01:14:51,669 --> 01:14:48,110
misinterpreted his comments particularly

1473
01:14:53,340 --> 01:14:51,679
by the British tabloids who tend to

1474
01:14:56,320 --> 01:14:53,350
misinterpret almost everything right

1475
01:14:58,330 --> 01:14:56,330
what he was saying is this we haven't

1476
01:15:00,790 --> 01:14:58,340
you know we haven't looked for life on

1477
01:15:02,890 --> 01:15:00,800
Mars when I say we I mean NASA the

1478
01:15:06,760 --> 01:15:02,900
Europeans have done more but NASA hasn't

1479
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:06,770
looked for life on Mars since 1976 when

1480
01:15:12,070 --> 01:15:09,530
it sent the Viking landers to the

1481
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:12,080
surface of our little ruddy buddy up

1482
01:15:18,220 --> 01:15:15,290
there and it was probably because of the

1483
01:15:20,140 --> 01:15:18,230
ambiguous results that came back from

1484
01:15:21,850 --> 01:15:20,150
the Viking landers that NASA decided

1485
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:21,860
okay we're not going to do that again

1486
01:15:25,959 --> 01:15:24,170
spend a billion dollars and still not be

1487
01:15:27,580 --> 01:15:25,969
sure whether we'd found life or not

1488
01:15:29,860 --> 01:15:27,590
found life so they've been very

1489
01:15:31,689 --> 01:15:29,870
tentative all the Rovers and orbiters

1490
01:15:34,860 --> 01:15:31,699
and so forth that have been you know

1491
01:15:38,229 --> 01:15:34,870
thrown against Mars are only looking for

1492
01:15:40,450 --> 01:15:38,239
where the water might be or places where

1493
01:15:41,350 --> 01:15:40,460
their mouth the water might have been

1494
01:15:42,820 --> 01:15:41,360
that kind of thing

1495
01:15:44,740 --> 01:15:42,830
right and then they'll go back with

1496
01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:44,750
something else but Green was referring

1497
01:15:49,899 --> 01:15:46,250
to new Rovers that are going to go up

1498
01:15:52,510 --> 01:15:49,909
and actually look for biology and what

1499
01:15:55,570 --> 01:15:52,520
he meant when he said that and if we

1500
01:15:57,610 --> 01:15:55,580
find it we may not be prepared it wasn't

1501
01:15:58,060 --> 01:15:57,620
that he figured oh I gotta find little

1502
01:16:00,550 --> 01:15:58,070
green

1503
01:16:02,770 --> 01:16:00,560
they're gonna you know want to invade

1504
01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:02,780
the earth and who knows what come for

1505
01:16:06,370 --> 01:16:05,090
our fast food I mean that that isn't

1506
01:16:08,319 --> 01:16:06,380
what he was saying what he was saying is

1507
01:16:11,319 --> 01:16:08,329
we don't know what the next steps should

1508
01:16:13,510 --> 01:16:11,329
be if we find microbes on Mars for

1509
01:16:15,669 --> 01:16:13,520
example two meters down below the

1510
01:16:19,030 --> 01:16:15,679
surface what do we do next do we say to

1511
01:16:21,550 --> 01:16:19,040
Elon Musk a man you know lay off don't

1512
01:16:23,140 --> 01:16:21,560
take anybody to Mars there Mars there

1513
01:16:25,569 --> 01:16:23,150
are Martians and sure they're

1514
01:16:27,669 --> 01:16:25,579
microscopic but it's their planet I mean

1515
01:16:29,589 --> 01:16:27,679
do we do we know whether we would buy

1516
01:16:31,629 --> 01:16:29,599
that argument or would we not buy that

1517
01:16:34,030 --> 01:16:31,639
argument so what he was saying is he

1518
01:16:36,879 --> 01:16:34,040
didn't know whether we had thought

1519
01:16:39,220 --> 01:16:36,889
through the consequences not just these

1520
01:16:41,410 --> 01:16:39,230
sorts of things but also what science

1521
01:16:43,629 --> 01:16:41,420
would you try and do next you know what

1522
01:16:46,060 --> 01:16:43,639
what spacecraft would you want to build

1523
01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:46,070
if you actually did find evidence for

1524
01:16:49,439 --> 01:16:48,770
Martians dead or alive you know on the

1525
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:49,449
Red Planet

1526
01:16:57,939 --> 01:16:53,770
hmm interesting and as far as

1527
01:17:00,030 --> 01:16:57,949
intelligent life I had I don't know

1528
01:17:03,330 --> 01:17:00,040
maybe two or three years ago I had

1529
01:17:07,569 --> 01:17:03,340
Jeffrey Bennett on this show he was a

1530
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:07,579
astrophysicist and he also was at NASA

1531
01:17:12,220 --> 01:17:10,730
for a while and he he said that he had a

1532
01:17:16,479 --> 01:17:12,230
conversation with a few of his

1533
01:17:19,870 --> 01:17:16,489
colleagues there and they had come up

1534
01:17:24,010 --> 01:17:19,880
with the the thought that and I'm

1535
01:17:27,669 --> 01:17:24,020
paraphrasing here but that if a society

1536
01:17:29,950 --> 01:17:27,679
an intelligent society could get it

1537
01:17:32,229 --> 01:17:29,960
through the bottleneck of technology

1538
01:17:34,149 --> 01:17:32,239
without blowing themselves up that

1539
01:17:36,339 --> 01:17:34,159
they'd probably be traveling the Stars

1540
01:17:39,580 --> 01:17:36,349
and I just wondered if you ever heard a

1541
01:17:42,310 --> 01:17:39,590
similar thought well I don't know

1542
01:17:44,050 --> 01:17:42,320
whether Jeff was that that's probably an

1543
01:17:45,990 --> 01:17:44,060
original thought would Jeff although

1544
01:17:48,729 --> 01:17:46,000
I've written articles about that thought

1545
01:17:50,290 --> 01:17:48,739
and maybe I'd heard about I mean Jeff is

1546
01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:50,300
a guy I know I wrote a book with him oh

1547
01:17:56,410 --> 01:17:54,770
okay yes yes in fact he's gonna be

1548
01:17:58,060 --> 01:17:56,420
coming to the SETI Institute in a couple

1549
01:18:01,060 --> 01:17:58,070
of weeks great guy

1550
01:18:02,979 --> 01:18:01,070
yes he is a wonderful guy he yes he has

1551
01:18:04,689 --> 01:18:02,989
the number one astronomy textbook and he

1552
01:18:07,899 --> 01:18:04,699
and I have the number one assess row

1553
01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:07,909
biology textbook for college kids but in

1554
01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:11,210
any case III think it's true this was my

1555
01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:11,930
argument

1556
01:18:20,050 --> 01:18:14,650
I'm not sure how Jeff is racist but if

1557
01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:20,060
you you know you invent the h-bomb right

1558
01:18:23,950 --> 01:18:21,770
and you might say okay that's the

1559
01:18:26,020 --> 01:18:23,960
beginning of the end for society but on

1560
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:26,030
the other hand you invent the h-bomb at

1561
01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:27,890
about the same time you invent rockets

1562
01:18:32,530 --> 01:18:29,930
because after all you need rockets to

1563
01:18:34,180 --> 01:18:32,540
carry the H bombs around alright so you

1564
01:18:36,370 --> 01:18:34,190
know within hundreds of years you know

1565
01:18:38,890 --> 01:18:36,380
the two are simultaneous in any

1566
01:18:40,480 --> 01:18:38,900
technological society's development and

1567
01:18:42,730 --> 01:18:40,490
so just at the point where you could

1568
01:18:44,890 --> 01:18:42,740
wipe yourself out you also have the

1569
01:18:47,140 --> 01:18:44,900
technology to spread yourselves out and

1570
01:18:49,420 --> 01:18:47,150
you know put people into orbit you know

1571
01:18:52,270 --> 01:18:49,430
orbiting colonies or maybe on the Moon

1572
01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:52,280
or Mars in our case get some people off

1573
01:18:55,900 --> 01:18:54,530
the planet and once you've done that I

1574
01:18:58,330 --> 01:18:55,910
think it's very hard to get rid of

1575
01:19:01,030 --> 01:18:58,340
everybody I mean you know you could let

1576
01:19:02,710 --> 01:19:01,040
all the nukes loose tomorrow

1577
01:19:04,270 --> 01:19:02,720
I actually made an estimate of how many

1578
01:19:07,180 --> 01:19:04,280
people that would kill it turns out it

1579
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:07,190
at best if you consider it best at best

1580
01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:08,690
it can only kill about 1/3 of the

1581
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:10,130
population there gonna be plenty of

1582
01:19:14,170 --> 01:19:12,650
people left over so you know but let's

1583
01:19:15,370 --> 01:19:14,180
even say you could get rid of everybody

1584
01:19:17,410 --> 01:19:15,380
that way there's still those those

1585
01:19:19,180 --> 01:19:17,420
people you know on your Mars colony on

1586
01:19:21,790 --> 01:19:19,190
the moon colony or in orbit around the

1587
01:19:23,350 --> 01:19:21,800
earth or an orbit around the Sun and so

1588
01:19:26,710 --> 01:19:23,360
there's no way of getting rid of Homo

1589
01:19:29,650 --> 01:19:26,720
sapiens right so I do think that there

1590
01:19:32,140 --> 01:19:29,660
is this very narrow bit of time this

1591
01:19:34,240 --> 01:19:32,150
very limited bit of time where you have

1592
01:19:36,760 --> 01:19:34,250
the capability to do yourself in and

1593
01:19:39,940 --> 01:19:36,770
still haven't spread out a little bit so

1594
01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:39,950
you can avoid no killing everybody and

1595
01:19:43,810 --> 01:19:41,690
and that's the bottleneck and I don't

1596
01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:43,820
imagine that lasts more than 50 years so

1597
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:44,930
that's a pretty short period of time

1598
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:46,850
compared to the history of our species

1599
01:19:53,590 --> 01:19:49,850
and what about you you must have heard

1600
01:19:56,560 --> 01:19:53,600
people talk Elan musk for one is and you

1601
01:19:58,930 --> 01:19:56,570
did a great show on AI artificial

1602
01:20:00,790 --> 01:19:58,940
intelligence I really enjoyed that one a

1603
01:20:03,100 --> 01:20:00,800
lot actually actually you have some

1604
01:20:06,270 --> 01:20:03,110
great people on that one but you know

1605
01:20:09,370 --> 01:20:06,280
that we could you know create

1606
01:20:12,070 --> 01:20:09,380
self-replicating machines that would you

1607
01:20:13,510 --> 01:20:12,080
know continue to work until they

1608
01:20:16,570 --> 01:20:13,520
destroyed everyone on earth that that

1609
01:20:18,880 --> 01:20:16,580
type of thing what are your thoughts on

1610
01:20:20,230 --> 01:20:18,890
on you know artificial intelligence as

1611
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:20,240
far as that goes I don't know if you

1612
01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:22,010
actually brought that up during your

1613
01:20:27,020 --> 01:20:25,050
show no I don't know that I did but look

1614
01:20:29,720 --> 01:20:27,030
artificial intelligence I do think is is

1615
01:20:31,190 --> 01:20:29,730
a very serious development because for

1616
01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:31,200
the first time we're kind of inventing

1617
01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:33,570
our own successors if you want to look

1618
01:20:39,080 --> 01:20:36,570
at it that way and it's it's true that

1619
01:20:41,120 --> 01:20:39,090
artificial intelligence today is very

1620
01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:41,130
limited in what it can do and you know

1621
01:20:45,620 --> 01:20:43,050
the only threat it poses is that if you

1622
01:20:47,540 --> 01:20:45,630
have a job and some guy who works in AI

1623
01:20:49,820 --> 01:20:47,550
said they said it's lunch and I was that

1624
01:20:52,580 --> 01:20:49,830
not too long ago he said if your job is

1625
01:20:54,620 --> 01:20:52,590
fairly repetitive like filling out tax

1626
01:20:58,820 --> 01:20:54,630
forms or something like that

1627
01:21:00,890 --> 01:20:58,830
he says you have ten years okay I

1628
01:21:03,320 --> 01:21:00,900
remember what he said that well I said

1629
01:21:05,090 --> 01:21:03,330
okay but that's a repetitive job and

1630
01:21:07,160 --> 01:21:05,100
somebody else in the audience said well

1631
01:21:09,470 --> 01:21:07,170
what if my job isn't repetitive you know

1632
01:21:13,700 --> 01:21:09,480
I'm a novelist or I do something

1633
01:21:14,900 --> 01:21:13,710
creative how long do I have then and the

1634
01:21:18,500 --> 01:21:14,910
guy didn't answer the question he just

1635
01:21:20,210 --> 01:21:18,510
smiled at the audience so you know I I

1636
01:21:23,270 --> 01:21:20,220
do think that there's the potential to

1637
01:21:25,340 --> 01:21:23,280
in invent machines that essentially can

1638
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:25,350
do anything cognitively that we can do

1639
01:21:30,290 --> 01:21:28,410
and of course one thinks oh gosh now we

1640
01:21:32,060 --> 01:21:30,300
have a machine that's as smart as my

1641
01:21:34,430 --> 01:21:32,070
next-door neighbor although maybe not as

1642
01:21:36,140 --> 01:21:34,440
smart as me kind of thing but the point

1643
01:21:38,480 --> 01:21:36,150
is that that machine will develop its

1644
01:21:41,540 --> 01:21:38,490
own successor it'll design the next

1645
01:21:44,300 --> 01:21:41,550
generation of smart machine and so

1646
01:21:46,550 --> 01:21:44,310
unlike humans these machines will get

1647
01:21:48,890 --> 01:21:46,560
very very much smarter very very quickly

1648
01:21:50,360 --> 01:21:48,900
and within 20 years you have one machine

1649
01:21:52,340 --> 01:21:50,370
that's smarter than all humans put

1650
01:21:53,360 --> 01:21:52,350
together that doesn't happen with

1651
01:21:55,370 --> 01:21:53,370
biology

1652
01:21:57,740 --> 01:21:55,380
listen gonna happen with us we're not

1653
01:22:00,830 --> 01:21:57,750
any smarter than we were ten thousand

1654
01:22:02,900 --> 01:22:00,840
years ago to be honest and so you know

1655
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:02,910
that's why it's it's a little

1656
01:22:06,920 --> 01:22:04,410
unpredictable what's going to happen

1657
01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:06,930
certainly in the longer term how I agree

1658
01:22:13,220 --> 01:22:10,530
with you about people being smart you

1659
01:22:15,560 --> 01:22:13,230
know any smarter or less smartest just

1660
01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:15,570
different things developed over the

1661
01:22:22,550 --> 01:22:17,970
years I remember there was a something

1662
01:22:24,710 --> 01:22:22,560
online for you to take as far as the

1663
01:22:26,510 --> 01:22:24,720
test goes and it was very very difficult

1664
01:22:28,910 --> 01:22:26,520
and end up being like a fourth grade

1665
01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:28,920
test and the 18th century or something

1666
01:22:34,700 --> 01:22:32,010
like that you know I mean you know it's

1667
01:22:35,550 --> 01:22:34,710
funny how some people look back in time

1668
01:22:38,550 --> 01:22:35,560
and think

1669
01:22:40,860 --> 01:22:38,560
people weren't as smart as they are now

1670
01:22:43,080 --> 01:22:40,870
it's just that yeah that's obviously

1671
01:22:44,550 --> 01:22:43,090
unrealistic is a bit of a conceit on the

1672
01:22:46,370 --> 01:22:44,560
other hand one shouldn't be intimidated

1673
01:22:49,560 --> 01:22:46,380
by the kind of evidence you just

1674
01:22:51,150 --> 01:22:49,570
mentioned because of course in the 18th

1675
01:22:53,970 --> 01:22:51,160
century not everybody went to school

1676
01:22:56,100 --> 01:22:53,980
only those who you know had opportunity

1677
01:22:58,470 --> 01:22:56,110
who came from the if you will the better

1678
01:23:00,360 --> 01:22:58,480
class the the wealthier class and

1679
01:23:05,270 --> 01:23:00,370
consequently maybe the schools could be

1680
01:23:08,070 --> 01:23:05,280
a little harder right right I I did just

1681
01:23:11,450 --> 01:23:08,080
just something really quick on this I'm

1682
01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:11,460
a fine arts appraiser and I also

1683
01:23:17,400 --> 01:23:14,530
understand how the Old English was

1684
01:23:20,300 --> 01:23:17,410
written and I transcribed a six-page

1685
01:23:23,400 --> 01:23:20,310
George Washington letter had to use

1686
01:23:25,110 --> 01:23:23,410
dictionary 20 times and there wasn't one

1687
01:23:29,700 --> 01:23:25,120
single misspelled in those six pages

1688
01:23:33,090 --> 01:23:29,710
pretty amazing well he was new a dummy I

1689
01:23:38,460 --> 01:23:33,100
know a way off topic but anyway as far

1690
01:23:40,770 --> 01:23:38,470
as the average astronomer that you know

1691
01:23:42,510 --> 01:23:40,780
are friends with or whatever do you

1692
01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:42,520
think it's it's pretty much across the

1693
01:23:50,840 --> 01:23:47,770
board that there's an idea that there's

1694
01:23:53,700 --> 01:23:50,850
most likely intelligent life out there

1695
01:23:56,820 --> 01:23:53,710
well I certainly haven't you know

1696
01:23:58,050 --> 01:23:56,830
surveyed them so I don't really know you

1697
01:24:00,570 --> 01:23:58,060
know the people I talked to who all

1698
01:24:02,400 --> 01:24:00,580
seemed to be fairly sanguine fairly

1699
01:24:04,590 --> 01:24:02,410
optimistic that there's intelligence out

1700
01:24:06,300 --> 01:24:04,600
there because if not then there's got to

1701
01:24:08,190 --> 01:24:06,310
be something very special about what's

1702
01:24:09,360 --> 01:24:08,200
happened here on earth there are people

1703
01:24:11,100 --> 01:24:09,370
who maintain that there is something

1704
01:24:15,150 --> 01:24:11,110
special about what's happened here I

1705
01:24:17,070 --> 01:24:15,160
mean you know one easy example is 66

1706
01:24:21,090 --> 01:24:17,080
million years ago of an asteroid hits

1707
01:24:22,680 --> 01:24:21,100
the earth wipes out the dinos and 2/3 of

1708
01:24:25,830 --> 01:24:22,690
everything else by the way all other

1709
01:24:27,690 --> 01:24:25,840
species but you know if that asteroid

1710
01:24:29,670 --> 01:24:27,700
had arrived 30 minutes earlier it would

1711
01:24:30,690 --> 01:24:29,680
have missed the earth entirely and you

1712
01:24:32,580 --> 01:24:30,700
and I would not be having this

1713
01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:32,590
conversation there would be dinosaurs

1714
01:24:38,970 --> 01:24:35,290
here in California some would say there

1715
01:24:40,950 --> 01:24:38,980
still are I suppose but in any case you

1716
01:24:42,690 --> 01:24:40,960
know so that suggests that well you know

1717
01:24:44,520 --> 01:24:42,700
the dinosaurs were around for 150

1718
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:44,530
million years and they never got very

1719
01:24:49,230 --> 01:24:46,810
smart right they were never building

1720
01:24:53,480 --> 01:24:49,240
radio transmitters they never you know

1721
01:24:56,490 --> 01:24:53,490
developed a no reality television so it

1722
01:24:58,920 --> 01:24:56,500
suggests that you know nature is not

1723
01:25:01,290 --> 01:24:58,930
particularly interested in intelligence

1724
01:25:04,400 --> 01:25:01,300
nature is only interested in survival

1725
01:25:07,290 --> 01:25:04,410
and so maybe there are just dillion's of

1726
01:25:10,020 --> 01:25:07,300
planets out there with life but no

1727
01:25:13,110 --> 01:25:10,030
intelligence that's possible some people

1728
01:25:15,300 --> 01:25:13,120
would argue that I personally find that

1729
01:25:17,250 --> 01:25:15,310
special pleading so I don't know that

1730
01:25:24,290 --> 01:25:17,260
that's actually true but there's some

1731
01:25:27,060 --> 01:25:24,300
who do yeah yeah and then also we are

1732
01:25:29,190 --> 01:25:27,070
like you said we're kind of a young

1733
01:25:31,980 --> 01:25:29,200
species compared to what else we can

1734
01:25:34,760 --> 01:25:31,990
compare on earth but we're also a young

1735
01:25:40,260 --> 01:25:34,770
solar system a young planet compared to

1736
01:25:42,600 --> 01:25:40,270
a lot of what is out there and you know

1737
01:25:45,060 --> 01:25:42,610
when you get to thinking about our

1738
01:25:50,100 --> 01:25:45,070
technology and the possible technology

1739
01:25:53,190 --> 01:25:50,110
of a say a society that's been around

1740
01:25:54,330 --> 01:25:53,200
for as long as the dinosaurs were 150

1741
01:25:57,090 --> 01:25:54,340
million years I mean that would be

1742
01:25:59,670 --> 01:25:57,100
incredible I mean look at what we've

1743
01:26:02,760 --> 01:25:59,680
done in the last hundred years as far as

1744
01:26:05,610 --> 01:26:02,770
technology goes and this is when you

1745
01:26:09,930 --> 01:26:05,620
know we can speculate all kinds of

1746
01:26:12,180 --> 01:26:09,940
things about space travel or you know

1747
01:26:13,890 --> 01:26:12,190
time travel or whatever it is that could

1748
01:26:18,780 --> 01:26:13,900
be figured out with the amount of time

1749
01:26:21,810 --> 01:26:18,790
and technology and you know what do you

1750
01:26:23,670 --> 01:26:21,820
think about as far as technology out

1751
01:26:25,950 --> 01:26:23,680
there in the length of time that you

1752
01:26:27,780 --> 01:26:25,960
know a species could be around well I

1753
01:26:28,920 --> 01:26:27,790
don't know that there's any limit I mean

1754
01:26:30,930 --> 01:26:28,930
we've already talked a little bit about

1755
01:26:34,800 --> 01:26:30,940
artificial intelligence and whether AI

1756
01:26:36,450 --> 01:26:34,810
is our future not not just in terms of

1757
01:26:38,550 --> 01:26:36,460
you know whether it takes our jobs or

1758
01:26:40,740 --> 01:26:38,560
whether it you know helps us in the old

1759
01:26:43,770 --> 01:26:40,750
folks home or anything like that but

1760
01:26:45,840 --> 01:26:43,780
whether and indeed you know quickly

1761
01:26:48,150 --> 01:26:45,850
becomes the dominant intelligence on

1762
01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:48,160
this planet and if that's the case and I

1763
01:26:52,170 --> 01:26:49,930
think that it probably is the case but

1764
01:26:53,460 --> 01:26:52,180
we'll have to see if that happens some

1765
01:26:55,080 --> 01:26:53,470
of this intelligence is going to get

1766
01:26:56,880 --> 01:26:55,090
kind of bored hanging around earth I

1767
01:26:58,800 --> 01:26:56,890
mean earth is fairly interesting and all

1768
01:27:01,620 --> 01:26:58,810
but you know if you're a machine and you

1769
01:27:03,179 --> 01:27:01,630
can travel because you don't die you can

1770
01:27:05,609 --> 01:27:03,189
travel any distance you want

1771
01:27:07,409 --> 01:27:05,619
then you know some of those machines may

1772
01:27:10,799 --> 01:27:07,419
just get up and leave so I think that

1773
01:27:13,020 --> 01:27:10,809
it's hardly radical to suggest that the

1774
01:27:15,750 --> 01:27:13,030
dominant intelligence in the universe is

1775
01:27:18,899 --> 01:27:15,760
not biological at all it's just machine

1776
01:27:20,909 --> 01:27:18,909
intelligence and so if you ask well how

1777
01:27:24,629 --> 01:27:20,919
long could that kind of intelligence

1778
01:27:26,909 --> 01:27:24,639
survive and it's you know it's well I

1779
01:27:29,609 --> 01:27:26,919
mean eventually the the universe becomes

1780
01:27:32,819 --> 01:27:29,619
kind of uninteresting in terms of energy

1781
01:27:34,649 --> 01:27:32,829
sources and you know but that's a to ten

1782
01:27:36,859 --> 01:27:34,659
to the hundred years that's a that's

1783
01:27:40,169 --> 01:27:36,869
when the last big black hole burns up so

1784
01:27:41,669 --> 01:27:40,179
that's a long time and these machines

1785
01:27:45,149 --> 01:27:41,679
will have plenty of time to do whatever

1786
01:27:48,439 --> 01:27:45,159
it is that smart machines want to do do

1787
01:27:51,330 --> 01:27:48,449
you think that there's a possibility of

1788
01:27:54,989 --> 01:27:51,340
us figuring out here on earth us

1789
01:27:56,850 --> 01:27:54,999
figuring out a way to travel you know

1790
01:27:58,649 --> 01:27:56,860
faster than the speed of light I know

1791
01:28:01,020 --> 01:27:58,659
that's really out there but there are

1792
01:28:04,379 --> 01:28:01,030
people that are about theorizing that

1793
01:28:10,560 --> 01:28:04,389
there that flight speed may not be the

1794
01:28:12,179 --> 01:28:10,570
end of the speed you know I mean what do

1795
01:28:13,919 --> 01:28:12,189
you think the future of space travel I

1796
01:28:16,259 --> 01:28:13,929
mean could do you think it's possible

1797
01:28:19,140 --> 01:28:16,269
that we could actually get to the stars

1798
01:28:20,699 --> 01:28:19,150
at some point well we could get to the

1799
01:28:22,259 --> 01:28:20,709
stars if you just go fast enough you

1800
01:28:24,299 --> 01:28:22,269
don't have to break the speed of light

1801
01:28:26,069 --> 01:28:24,309
barrier but as you get closer and closer

1802
01:28:28,080 --> 01:28:26,079
to the speed of light you know your own

1803
01:28:30,239 --> 01:28:28,090
clock slows down that's just special

1804
01:28:32,060 --> 01:28:30,249
relativity so from your point of view

1805
01:28:34,319 --> 01:28:32,070
you know you could go if you have a

1806
01:28:36,659 --> 01:28:34,329
spacecraft with enough energy sources

1807
01:28:38,520 --> 01:28:36,669
that you can go that fast I mean you can

1808
01:28:39,959 --> 01:28:38,530
and if you don't mind the fact that the

1809
01:28:42,959 --> 01:28:39,969
front of the ship is encountering all

1810
01:28:45,750 --> 01:28:42,969
this you know these interstellar yeah

1811
01:28:47,250 --> 01:28:45,760
the interstellar gas all these atoms

1812
01:28:49,649 --> 01:28:47,260
that are going to make for very hard

1813
01:28:51,449 --> 01:28:49,659
radiation inside the rocket and give you

1814
01:28:52,919 --> 01:28:51,459
instant cancer I mean there all sorts of

1815
01:28:54,239 --> 01:28:52,929
you know technical problems but those

1816
01:28:57,390 --> 01:28:54,249
are only technical problems at least

1817
01:28:59,520 --> 01:28:57,400
they don't violate physics the real

1818
01:29:01,379 --> 01:28:59,530
question if you talk about faster than

1819
01:29:02,929 --> 01:29:01,389
light travel you know warp drive

1820
01:29:05,339 --> 01:29:02,939
whatever that means

1821
01:29:07,109 --> 01:29:05,349
then you're up against physics because

1822
01:29:08,759 --> 01:29:07,119
if you can go faster than the speed of

1823
01:29:11,159 --> 01:29:08,769
light then it turns out that they're

1824
01:29:14,370 --> 01:29:11,169
problems with causality in physics that

1825
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:14,380
the the the effects precede the causes

1826
01:29:20,310 --> 01:29:17,010
and that messes physics up in a way that

1827
01:29:22,160 --> 01:29:20,320
distasteful that you know scientists

1828
01:29:24,120 --> 01:29:22,170
including of course a-line Stein

1829
01:29:26,250 --> 01:29:24,130
wouldn't allow that now

1830
01:29:27,540 --> 01:29:26,260
you know one should never say never and

1831
01:29:29,640 --> 01:29:27,550
maybe their ways out of this and

1832
01:29:30,420 --> 01:29:29,650
obviously no big black holes and so

1833
01:29:33,660 --> 01:29:30,430
forth

1834
01:29:34,680 --> 01:29:33,670
might Ford you a cheat to to go fast in

1835
01:29:36,300 --> 01:29:34,690
this we live but it's very unclear

1836
01:29:37,650 --> 01:29:36,310
whether you can actually go through a

1837
01:29:39,600 --> 01:29:37,660
big black hole or anything like that

1838
01:29:42,210 --> 01:29:39,610
come out the other end and know anything

1839
01:29:45,510 --> 01:29:42,220
about it so it's it's unclear at this

1840
01:29:48,210 --> 01:29:45,520
point you know again it's simply the

1841
01:29:50,460 --> 01:29:48,220
realm of science fiction and beyond that

1842
01:29:52,860 --> 01:29:50,470
nobody knows if we knew it wouldn't be

1843
01:29:54,900 --> 01:29:52,870
science fiction anymore yeah I know a

1844
01:29:58,290 --> 01:29:54,910
lot of people are inspired that get into

1845
01:30:00,930 --> 01:29:58,300
astronomy and and space work basically

1846
01:30:04,260 --> 01:30:00,940
are inspired by science fiction to begin

1847
01:30:05,670 --> 01:30:04,270
with us you know in their youth there

1848
01:30:07,050 --> 01:30:05,680
was a question up on the message board

1849
01:30:08,940 --> 01:30:07,060
someone wanted to know what you thought

1850
01:30:12,840 --> 01:30:08,950
about I always have trouble saying it

1851
01:30:19,770 --> 01:30:12,850
the the out of galaxy I mean the out of

1852
01:30:20,970 --> 01:30:19,780
a solar system OMA Mona it's a yeah what

1853
01:30:23,010 --> 01:30:20,980
do you think about that innocent there

1854
01:30:25,610 --> 01:30:23,020
another one that they say is coming

1855
01:30:28,050 --> 01:30:25,620
through another yes type of you out of

1856
01:30:29,700 --> 01:30:28,060
yeah but more I'm all was found about

1857
01:30:32,850 --> 01:30:29,710
two and a half years ago something like

1858
01:30:35,570 --> 01:30:32,860
that using a telescope in Hawaii and

1859
01:30:38,670 --> 01:30:35,580
that's why it has a nice Hawaiian name

1860
01:30:41,310 --> 01:30:38,680
and what was interesting about it is

1861
01:30:42,750 --> 01:30:41,320
that it's not from this solar system the

1862
01:30:44,490 --> 01:30:42,760
first time we found a rock from somebody

1863
01:30:46,290 --> 01:30:44,500
else's solar system then you could say

1864
01:30:49,410 --> 01:30:46,300
that's remarkable and it sort of is

1865
01:30:51,060 --> 01:30:49,420
except for the fact that you know what's

1866
01:30:54,510 --> 01:30:51,070
the first time we had telescopes that

1867
01:30:56,340 --> 01:30:54,520
could easily find such things but the

1868
01:30:59,490 --> 01:30:56,350
question is was it just a rock was it

1869
01:31:01,320 --> 01:30:59,500
just a dead comet or could it be you

1870
01:31:04,230 --> 01:31:01,330
know a la rendezvous with Rama

1871
01:31:06,140 --> 01:31:04,240
you know the arthur c-- clark story

1872
01:31:08,760 --> 01:31:06,150
could it be an interstellar spacecraft

1873
01:31:11,790 --> 01:31:08,770
piloted by a bunch of Klingons or

1874
01:31:15,120 --> 01:31:11,800
something and that idea was considered

1875
01:31:16,590 --> 01:31:15,130
seriously by the head of the harvard

1876
01:31:18,570 --> 01:31:16,600
astronomy department who pointed out

1877
01:31:20,250 --> 01:31:18,580
that look this thing came right into you

1878
01:31:23,850 --> 01:31:20,260
know the central regions of our solar

1879
01:31:26,610 --> 01:31:23,860
system that's an awfully good targeting

1880
01:31:28,170 --> 01:31:26,620
for an object that you know it's

1881
01:31:30,870 --> 01:31:28,180
completely natural was just you know

1882
01:31:32,910 --> 01:31:30,880
kicked out of its own solar system

1883
01:31:34,229 --> 01:31:32,920
perfectly natural processes you know

1884
01:31:36,540 --> 01:31:34,239
that would make a lot more sense if

1885
01:31:39,000 --> 01:31:36,550
there was some navigation on board so he

1886
01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:39,010
was arguing that one should not rule out

1887
01:31:44,430 --> 01:31:41,770
the possibility that a mu a mu was in

1888
01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:44,440
fact a manufactured thing and not not a

1889
01:31:49,649 --> 01:31:48,010
natural asteroid or comment but in the

1890
01:31:52,709 --> 01:31:49,659
last couple of months

1891
01:31:54,689 --> 01:31:52,719
this amateur in Russia I think he's into

1892
01:31:56,910 --> 01:31:54,699
Ukraine actually should be careful about

1893
01:31:59,610 --> 01:31:56,920
that and it's not be Ukraine it's in

1894
01:32:02,850 --> 01:31:59,620
Ukraine i hopeful forgive me for all

1895
01:32:05,129 --> 01:32:02,860
that but this thing was found and it's

1896
01:32:07,590 --> 01:32:05,139
also not from our solar system you can

1897
01:32:11,160 --> 01:32:07,600
tell that by its orbit and it now has

1898
01:32:14,010 --> 01:32:11,170
the name too I for interstellar to I

1899
01:32:15,450 --> 01:32:14,020
borislav and Boris off is the name of

1900
01:32:17,669 --> 01:32:15,460
the guy who found it so that's why it

1901
01:32:20,220 --> 01:32:17,679
has his name but that's clearly a comet

1902
01:32:22,229 --> 01:32:20,230
it has a tail right it has the colors of

1903
01:32:24,060 --> 01:32:22,239
a comet it's headed toward the inner

1904
01:32:26,459 --> 01:32:24,070
solar system and it will get closer to

1905
01:32:29,220 --> 01:32:26,469
us around Christmas time not very close

1906
01:32:31,770 --> 01:32:29,230
but closer and I guess we're gonna be

1907
01:32:36,030 --> 01:32:31,780
seeing part of the tail of Halley's

1908
01:32:37,649 --> 01:32:36,040
Comet did I get all you have over we're

1909
01:32:39,750 --> 01:32:37,659
gonna be I just saw something about

1910
01:32:41,250 --> 01:32:39,760
we're gonna be seeing I thought it was

1911
01:32:43,950 --> 01:32:41,260
Halley's Comet we're gonna be seeing

1912
01:32:46,950 --> 01:32:43,960
part of that or traces of that so I

1913
01:32:48,930 --> 01:32:46,960
think it's f a century before Halley's

1914
01:32:51,720 --> 01:32:48,940
Comet gets close to us again but right I

1915
01:32:53,820 --> 01:32:51,730
read something today though that's

1916
01:32:55,709 --> 01:32:53,830
saying it's it's not that but it's

1917
01:32:58,709 --> 01:32:55,719
traces of it or something that is going

1918
01:33:00,629 --> 01:32:58,719
to be visible anyway I may be thinking

1919
01:33:03,240 --> 01:33:00,639
of something else someone put a good

1920
01:33:06,950 --> 01:33:03,250
question in the chat room could SETI

1921
01:33:09,689 --> 01:33:06,960
find earth from the nearest solar system

1922
01:33:11,310 --> 01:33:09,699
yeah yeah I think they could I mean

1923
01:33:14,129 --> 01:33:11,320
there are some radars the strongest

1924
01:33:17,070 --> 01:33:14,139
signals being launched from Earth are

1925
01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:17,080
indeed the radars and you know if if you

1926
01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:18,850
had the good fortune to be in the beam

1927
01:33:23,640 --> 01:33:22,090
of the Arecibo radar that's the antenna

1928
01:33:25,950 --> 01:33:23,650
down in Puerto Rico oh yeah

1929
01:33:28,740 --> 01:33:25,960
which has a 2 megawatt transmitted our

1930
01:33:30,060 --> 01:33:28,750
emitter onboard of its I recall that you

1931
01:33:32,129 --> 01:33:30,070
could see from very very far away

1932
01:33:34,500 --> 01:33:32,139
actually with the kind of SETI equipment

1933
01:33:36,330 --> 01:33:34,510
that we have but let's assume that the

1934
01:33:38,100 --> 01:33:36,340
you know that's that's only a 1 in 10

1935
01:33:42,450 --> 01:33:38,110
million shot that you're in the line of

1936
01:33:44,399 --> 01:33:42,460
radar so the question is you know could

1937
01:33:45,210 --> 01:33:44,409
you see any of the others and I think

1938
01:33:48,690 --> 01:33:45,220
you could I

1939
01:33:50,100 --> 01:33:48,700
how long you're willing to look and some

1940
01:33:50,460 --> 01:33:50,110
of the details of the receiver and so

1941
01:33:51,810 --> 01:33:50,470
forth

1942
01:33:54,390 --> 01:33:51,820
but certainly the signal strength would

1943
01:33:55,980 --> 01:33:54,400
be enough and if the aliens have been in

1944
01:33:58,290 --> 01:33:55,990
the SETI business longer than we have

1945
01:34:00,540 --> 01:33:58,300
they undoubtedly have bigger antennas

1946
01:34:02,520 --> 01:34:00,550
and better receivers and probably could

1947
01:34:05,130 --> 01:34:02,530
pick up all sorts of stuff if they had

1948
01:34:07,620 --> 01:34:05,140
covered you know some real estate the

1949
01:34:10,800 --> 01:34:07,630
size of I don't know the Sonora Desert

1950
01:34:12,990 --> 01:34:10,810
with rooftop TV antennas they could even

1951
01:34:15,570 --> 01:34:13,000
pick up the carrier signals from our

1952
01:34:16,980 --> 01:34:15,580
television trans transmitters I don't

1953
01:34:18,240 --> 01:34:16,990
know if that would interest them but at

1954
01:34:22,980 --> 01:34:18,250
least they would know somebody's home

1955
01:34:25,950 --> 01:34:22,990
hmm now what about the the gasses on a

1956
01:34:27,030 --> 01:34:25,960
planet you know that would that would

1957
01:34:30,510 --> 01:34:27,040
take a whole different type of

1958
01:34:32,460 --> 01:34:30,520
instrumentation right to figure out if

1959
01:34:36,450 --> 01:34:32,470
they could find methane in a planet far

1960
01:34:38,280 --> 01:34:36,460
away or is that is after a spectrum well

1961
01:34:39,840 --> 01:34:38,290
that you do with optical telescopes

1962
01:34:43,050 --> 01:34:39,850
unless you're talking about gases like

1963
01:34:46,140 --> 01:34:43,060
you know Exxon or you know Sinclair or

1964
01:34:48,060 --> 01:34:46,150
maybe but if you're talking about the

1965
01:34:49,620 --> 01:34:48,070
composition of the atmosphere you do

1966
01:34:51,630 --> 01:34:49,630
that with a conventional telescope which

1967
01:34:55,170 --> 01:34:51,640
is to say a mirror and lens kind of

1968
01:35:05,520 --> 01:34:55,180
telescope and that's indeed one of the

1969
01:35:08,640 --> 01:35:05,530
briefs for the was at the jeepers it's

1970
01:35:12,060 --> 01:35:08,650
about to be launched it's the it's the

1971
01:35:15,420 --> 01:35:12,070
successor to Hubble the James Graham

1972
01:35:18,270 --> 01:35:15,430
James Webb yeah yeah brain yeah the jobs

1973
01:35:20,490 --> 01:35:18,280
I've had a few tonight the James Webb

1974
01:35:22,140 --> 01:35:20,500
telescope will be launched in probably

1975
01:35:24,300 --> 01:35:22,150
two years nobody knows it keeps getting

1976
01:35:26,700 --> 01:35:24,310
postponed a little bit but when that's

1977
01:35:29,130 --> 01:35:26,710
up there you know it's conceivable that

1978
01:35:32,430 --> 01:35:29,140
it will have enough sensitivity enough

1979
01:35:34,500 --> 01:35:32,440
collecting area to look at some planets

1980
01:35:38,100 --> 01:35:34,510
around stars that are relatively nearby

1981
01:35:40,560 --> 01:35:38,110
and if you will sort of sample the air

1982
01:35:43,440 --> 01:35:40,570
around those planets the atmospheres if

1983
01:35:45,360 --> 01:35:43,450
they have atmospheres and make spectral

1984
01:35:47,580 --> 01:35:45,370
analyses and tell you things like well

1985
01:35:49,650 --> 01:35:47,590
is there any oxygen in those atmospheres

1986
01:35:51,240 --> 01:35:49,660
which would be an interesting datum

1987
01:35:54,300 --> 01:35:51,250
because that would suggest that there's

1988
01:35:56,760 --> 01:35:54,310
also biology there you know and methane

1989
01:35:59,179 --> 01:35:56,770
of course is another gas that would

1990
01:36:02,569 --> 01:35:59,189
indicate some biology probably

1991
01:36:04,549 --> 01:36:02,579
yeah probably I know what I was talking

1992
01:36:07,189 --> 01:36:04,559
about earlier it says it's a meteor

1993
01:36:10,729 --> 01:36:07,199
shower made by Halley's Comet

1994
01:36:13,939 --> 01:36:10,739
so that Peaks tonight that's what the

1995
01:36:15,229 --> 01:36:13,949
news I read yeah well there's a lot you

1996
01:36:17,270 --> 01:36:15,239
know as you know there are many meteor

1997
01:36:18,739 --> 01:36:17,280
showers particularly in the early fall

1998
01:36:20,719 --> 01:36:18,749
here in the northern hemisphere and

1999
01:36:23,830 --> 01:36:20,729
almost all of them are the consequence

2000
01:36:26,179 --> 01:36:23,840
of rubble that's broken off of comets

2001
01:36:28,790 --> 01:36:26,189
staying in orbit and eventually you know

2002
01:36:30,310 --> 01:36:28,800
flying into our atmosphere I didn't I

2003
01:36:35,569 --> 01:36:30,320
didn't realize that that's interesting

2004
01:36:37,790 --> 01:36:35,579
so as far as people are putting some

2005
01:36:40,120 --> 01:36:37,800
questions in chat someone wants to know

2006
01:36:44,810 --> 01:36:40,130
what your thoughts are on the Vatican's

2007
01:36:46,429 --> 01:36:44,820
telescopes or telescope well I don't

2008
01:36:47,870 --> 01:36:46,439
know too much about the Vatican's

2009
01:36:50,750 --> 01:36:47,880
telescope but they have a very strong

2010
01:36:52,850 --> 01:36:50,760
astronomy program I've been to an

2011
01:36:54,560 --> 01:36:52,860
observatory actually in Italy years and

2012
01:36:57,919 --> 01:36:54,570
years ago but you know they also have

2013
01:36:59,810 --> 01:36:57,929
telescopes here and and elsewhere I mean

2014
01:37:02,060 --> 01:36:59,820
they're around the world and there's a

2015
01:37:05,080 --> 01:37:02,070
rather rather well known Vatican

2016
01:37:07,549 --> 01:37:05,090
astronomer brother guy Consolmagno

2017
01:37:09,489 --> 01:37:07,559
who is you know he's even written a book

2018
01:37:13,429 --> 01:37:09,499
I think the name of his last book was

2019
01:37:16,669 --> 01:37:13,439
would you baptize and alien so that's an

2020
01:37:18,830 --> 01:37:16,679
interesting question but but ya know the

2021
01:37:20,540 --> 01:37:18,840
Vatican Observatory you know they

2022
01:37:22,819 --> 01:37:20,550
probably have bad press simply because

2023
01:37:24,229 --> 01:37:22,829
of that whole thing with Galileo but on

2024
01:37:25,689 --> 01:37:24,239
the other hand they've always been

2025
01:37:29,629 --> 01:37:25,699
interested in this and they are

2026
01:37:34,810 --> 01:37:29,639
increasingly so right right I think

2027
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:34,820
that's that's pretty amazing and well

2028
01:37:41,870 --> 01:37:38,010
the question that Keith has come up a

2029
01:37:43,189 --> 01:37:41,880
couple times in the chatroom is I guess

2030
01:37:47,029 --> 01:37:43,199
we're going to get in a little bit into

2031
01:37:50,479 --> 01:37:47,039
the subject of UFOs and I would imagine

2032
01:37:52,279 --> 01:37:50,489
that someone like you get I remember

2033
01:37:53,779 --> 01:37:52,289
when you and I talked last time you told

2034
01:37:55,569 --> 01:37:53,789
me you get about I thought you said

2035
01:37:58,489 --> 01:37:55,579
something like 4,000 emails a month

2036
01:38:00,350 --> 01:37:58,499
there's something crazy like that but do

2037
01:38:07,129 --> 01:38:00,360
you get a lot of people that contact you

2038
01:38:10,100 --> 01:38:07,139
about UFOs I do I do I in fact I just

2039
01:38:12,709 --> 01:38:10,110
gave a talk about this at CF icon in Las

2040
01:38:15,459 --> 01:38:12,719
Vegas 48 hours ago

2041
01:38:18,560 --> 01:38:15,469
and well it's like 50 hours ago now but

2042
01:38:20,780 --> 01:38:18,570
on the fact that essentially every day I

2043
01:38:23,209 --> 01:38:20,790
get emails or phone calls from people

2044
01:38:24,470 --> 01:38:23,219
who have seen something or experienced

2045
01:38:24,979 --> 01:38:24,480
something and they want to know what it

2046
01:38:27,620 --> 01:38:24,989
was

2047
01:38:30,890 --> 01:38:27,630
so yes plenty of people get in touch

2048
01:38:33,170 --> 01:38:30,900
with me about UFOs and in fact next week

2049
01:38:35,150 --> 01:38:33,180
at this time will it be at this time no

2050
01:38:38,270 --> 01:38:35,160
it'll be sooner than that I guess it's

2051
01:38:41,540 --> 01:38:38,280
on Saturday morning I'll be debating

2052
01:38:45,200 --> 01:38:41,550
Nick Pope who's well known in the UFO

2053
01:38:47,959 --> 01:38:45,210
yeah Nick Pope at the Jasper dark sky

2054
01:38:51,800 --> 01:38:47,969
festival and glamorous lovely Jasper

2055
01:38:54,320 --> 01:38:51,810
Alberta up in Canada so yeah no I I do

2056
01:38:56,540 --> 01:38:54,330
and I mean I don't do UFO research

2057
01:38:58,580 --> 01:38:56,550
myself but I certainly deal with a lot

2058
01:39:00,350 --> 01:38:58,590
of people who call me up in and want to

2059
01:39:01,490 --> 01:39:00,360
report something and you know they send

2060
01:39:05,209 --> 01:39:01,500
me photos and videos

2061
01:39:06,770 --> 01:39:05,219
uh-huh and I'm sure your your your just

2062
01:39:09,890 --> 01:39:06,780
your general personality your kind to

2063
01:39:12,740 --> 01:39:09,900
them but you know it's it's probably is

2064
01:39:15,130 --> 01:39:12,750
it something you actually respond to and

2065
01:39:19,070 --> 01:39:15,140
just say that it's it's not something I

2066
01:39:21,709 --> 01:39:19,080
you know want to attempt to answer or do

2067
01:39:22,400 --> 01:39:21,719
you pass them along to say MUFON or

2068
01:39:24,380 --> 01:39:22,410
something like that

2069
01:39:27,290 --> 01:39:24,390
well I suggest to all of them that they

2070
01:39:29,600 --> 01:39:27,300
get in touch with MUFON but I do I mean

2071
01:39:30,890 --> 01:39:29,610
I asked them I mean if it's just a you

2072
01:39:32,900 --> 01:39:30,900
know they've seen something they don't

2073
01:39:34,910 --> 01:39:32,910
say anything more there's not much I can

2074
01:39:37,729 --> 01:39:34,920
say but I usually ask if they have any

2075
01:39:38,959 --> 01:39:37,739
photos or videos and if so whether they

2076
01:39:40,610 --> 01:39:38,969
want to send them to me because I would

2077
01:39:43,100 --> 01:39:40,620
give them the pinyon of what I think

2078
01:39:47,750 --> 01:39:43,110
they are and about half of them do do

2079
01:39:50,030 --> 01:39:47,760
that photography is actually something

2080
01:39:51,920 --> 01:39:50,040
I've done for a long time so very often

2081
01:39:53,959 --> 01:39:51,930
I can look at the photos of the videos

2082
01:39:56,450 --> 01:39:53,969
and in venture a guess as to what

2083
01:39:58,360 --> 01:39:56,460
they're actually you know seeing in

2084
01:40:00,920 --> 01:39:58,370
those videos and photos

2085
01:40:04,130 --> 01:40:00,930
nobody ever thanks me for those kinds of

2086
01:40:06,110 --> 01:40:04,140
explanations by the way oh yes they

2087
01:40:10,189 --> 01:40:06,120
don't want to hear I've had to do that

2088
01:40:11,600 --> 01:40:10,199
myself yeah yeah so I mean I I do I mean

2089
01:40:13,820 --> 01:40:11,610
there are some that are simply you know

2090
01:40:15,979 --> 01:40:13,830
I don't know what it is okay I mean that

2091
01:40:17,840 --> 01:40:15,989
that's often the case with these sorts

2092
01:40:19,189 --> 01:40:17,850
of things but of course the fact that

2093
01:40:21,560 --> 01:40:19,199
you don't know what it is it's hardly a

2094
01:40:23,090 --> 01:40:21,570
proof that it's you know

2095
01:40:24,439 --> 01:40:23,100
extraterrestrial anything I mean that's

2096
01:40:25,939 --> 01:40:24,449
an argument from ignorance you say I

2097
01:40:26,540 --> 01:40:25,949
don't know what it is so it's probably

2098
01:40:28,689 --> 01:40:26,550
extra

2099
01:40:32,649 --> 01:40:28,699
oh that's obviously a very weak argument

2100
01:40:36,729 --> 01:40:32,659
I'm I'm careful in this show not just

2101
01:40:39,220 --> 01:40:36,739
I'll say possibly you know possibly

2102
01:40:42,290 --> 01:40:39,230
extraterrestrial but that's only a

2103
01:40:43,819 --> 01:40:42,300
possibility because I as long as I've

2104
01:40:45,890 --> 01:40:43,829
been doing the show the more I do it the

2105
01:40:48,680 --> 01:40:45,900
more I realize that there's less I know

2106
01:40:52,729 --> 01:40:48,690
about you know what what people are

2107
01:40:56,479 --> 01:40:52,739
seeing so I think when we first actually

2108
01:40:58,970 --> 01:40:56,489
debated I think that I was using that

2109
01:41:01,850 --> 01:40:58,980
term a little more heavily saying that

2110
01:41:04,479 --> 01:41:01,860
you know thinking that what we were

2111
01:41:06,890 --> 01:41:04,489
seeing was most likely aliens now I have

2112
01:41:09,890 --> 01:41:06,900
absolutely no idea but I do know that

2113
01:41:12,919 --> 01:41:09,900
there's technology that is just

2114
01:41:15,350 --> 01:41:12,929
unexplainable and I wanted to get your

2115
01:41:18,109 --> 01:41:15,360
opinion of someone else else I also

2116
01:41:21,049 --> 01:41:18,119
asked in the chat room of have you

2117
01:41:25,700 --> 01:41:21,059
followed any of this USS Nimitz case and

2118
01:41:28,339 --> 01:41:25,710
what has you know what has been revealed

2119
01:41:30,410 --> 01:41:28,349
through that and you know the fact that

2120
01:41:32,930 --> 01:41:30,420
the Pentagon was actually doing some

2121
01:41:34,930 --> 01:41:32,940
serious research into the topic yeah

2122
01:41:37,790 --> 01:41:34,940
well I know that there unidentified

2123
01:41:39,979 --> 01:41:37,800
aerial phenomena as they like to call

2124
01:41:41,390 --> 01:41:39,989
them these days you know they stop the

2125
01:41:43,370 --> 01:41:41,400
program that's kind of interesting isn't

2126
01:41:45,470 --> 01:41:43,380
it I mean it already cost 22 million

2127
01:41:47,240 --> 01:41:45,480
dollars they decided well they weren't

2128
01:41:49,010 --> 01:41:47,250
coming up with anything very interesting

2129
01:41:51,350 --> 01:41:49,020
well there's a debate on whether that

2130
01:41:53,870 --> 01:41:51,360
stopped or not but anyway maybe they

2131
01:41:55,580 --> 01:41:53,880
maybe didn't but if the best they could

2132
01:41:57,169 --> 01:41:55,590
come up with were those videos I would

2133
01:41:58,760 --> 01:41:57,179
say well the videos are certainly

2134
01:42:00,589 --> 01:41:58,770
intriguing although I've heard various

2135
01:42:02,689 --> 01:42:00,599
explanations for what they could be that

2136
01:42:04,250 --> 01:42:02,699
don't involve aliens at all so all you

2137
01:42:05,530 --> 01:42:04,260
can say as well I mean it could be that

2138
01:42:08,359 --> 01:42:05,540
or it could be this or it could be that

2139
01:42:09,680 --> 01:42:08,369
and then that's obviously not good

2140
01:42:11,810 --> 01:42:09,690
enough that doesn't prove anything that

2141
01:42:13,609 --> 01:42:11,820
just means you don't know what it is so

2142
01:42:15,169 --> 01:42:13,619
but I am familiar I mean I've looked at

2143
01:42:16,310 --> 01:42:15,179
the videos quite a bit and I've shown

2144
01:42:17,870 --> 01:42:16,320
them to other people who have actually

2145
01:42:19,729 --> 01:42:17,880
flown for the military and stuff like

2146
01:42:21,049 --> 01:42:19,739
that and they give their opinions of

2147
01:42:23,209 --> 01:42:21,059
what they are not none of them has said

2148
01:42:24,410 --> 01:42:23,219
that it's an alien craft but you know

2149
01:42:26,810 --> 01:42:24,420
there are people out there who do think

2150
01:42:29,990 --> 01:42:26,820
it is have you actually listened to any

2151
01:42:33,560 --> 01:42:30,000
of david flavors testimony the fighter

2152
01:42:36,290 --> 01:42:33,570
pilot that encountered that tic-tac yeah

2153
01:42:38,540 --> 01:42:36,300
i have but only you know in videos that

2154
01:42:40,339 --> 01:42:38,550
are posted on the internet so i wasn't

2155
01:42:45,680 --> 01:42:40,349
there for the testimony

2156
01:42:49,669 --> 01:42:45,690
yeah well some of the some of the radar

2157
01:42:52,129 --> 01:42:49,679
and the eyewitness and that collaborate

2158
01:42:54,979 --> 01:42:52,139
some very spectacular things again I'm

2159
01:42:58,189 --> 01:42:54,989
not saying alien but I'm saying of craft

2160
01:43:01,399 --> 01:42:58,199
that for instance I forget something

2161
01:43:03,890 --> 01:43:01,409
like produced what would cause 1300 G's

2162
01:43:05,899 --> 01:43:03,900
of force well how do you know that was

2163
01:43:10,189 --> 01:43:05,909
1300 G because they had it tracked on

2164
01:43:12,589 --> 01:43:10,199
radar from I can't I think it was 28,000

2165
01:43:15,740 --> 01:43:12,599
feet down to the top of the ocean in

2166
01:43:19,370 --> 01:43:15,750
less than a second and so that's in that

2167
01:43:21,979 --> 01:43:19,380
we don't radar yeah yeah but you you you

2168
01:43:24,500 --> 01:43:21,989
can get a reflection from you know a

2169
01:43:27,080 --> 01:43:24,510
radar beam you get a second reflection

2170
01:43:28,819 --> 01:43:27,090
from someplace else and suddenly if you

2171
01:43:30,859 --> 01:43:28,829
say oh they're from the same object then

2172
01:43:32,629 --> 01:43:30,869
you say oh my god that was an incredible

2173
01:43:36,229 --> 01:43:32,639
velocity but of course there's a big

2174
01:43:37,879 --> 01:43:36,239
assumption in that but it was also I you

2175
01:43:40,430 --> 01:43:37,889
know David flavor is one of the

2176
01:43:43,160 --> 01:43:40,440
witnesses that actually saw this thing

2177
01:43:45,680 --> 01:43:43,170
behaving in such you know strange

2178
01:43:47,300 --> 01:43:45,690
maneuvers and you know shot off he

2179
01:43:49,580 --> 01:43:47,310
didn't get a speed up when he saw it

2180
01:43:52,910 --> 01:43:49,590
shot off of course but you know the

2181
01:43:55,790 --> 01:43:52,920
maneuvering was just it's just

2182
01:43:58,129 --> 01:43:55,800
unexplainable well I would never say

2183
01:43:59,870 --> 01:43:58,139
something's unexplainable I think that

2184
01:44:02,540 --> 01:43:59,880
that's you know that in our in our

2185
01:44:04,069 --> 01:44:02,550
technology I okay no I think what you're

2186
01:44:06,410 --> 01:44:04,079
saying what you really mean to say is

2187
01:44:08,120 --> 01:44:06,420
it's unexplained to say it's

2188
01:44:10,040 --> 01:44:08,130
unexplainable is to say that you know

2189
01:44:12,919 --> 01:44:10,050
humans are just not smart enough to ever

2190
01:44:15,260 --> 01:44:12,929
figure this out and you know that's

2191
01:44:17,149 --> 01:44:15,270
that's a hard hard thesis to prove I

2192
01:44:19,879 --> 01:44:17,159
think I'm a one thing that I noticed

2193
01:44:22,040 --> 01:44:19,889
about the the videos are the claims they

2194
01:44:24,830 --> 01:44:22,050
rather Navy pilots to begin with I often

2195
01:44:26,689 --> 01:44:24,840
wonder why is it that the aliens are so

2196
01:44:28,939 --> 01:44:26,699
clever that they only make themselves

2197
01:44:31,069 --> 01:44:28,949
visible to the military they you know

2198
01:44:33,470 --> 01:44:31,079
and only to our military for some reason

2199
01:44:35,930 --> 01:44:33,480
it seems but you know whereas Travis

2200
01:44:37,700 --> 01:44:35,940
Walton had no trouble seeing aliens but

2201
01:44:39,589 --> 01:44:37,710
somehow all the good evidence only

2202
01:44:40,939 --> 01:44:39,599
appears to the military I think that

2203
01:44:42,649 --> 01:44:40,949
there's something rather suspicious

2204
01:44:46,040 --> 01:44:42,659
about that because in this case the

2205
01:44:49,640 --> 01:44:46,050
aleatory was using new technology these

2206
01:44:50,990 --> 01:44:49,650
infrared gun side cameras were new some

2207
01:44:52,669 --> 01:44:51,000
people told me they said you know this

2208
01:44:53,779 --> 01:44:52,679
is just a defect in the cameras I don't

2209
01:44:55,339 --> 01:44:53,789
know if that's true or not

2210
01:44:56,990 --> 01:44:55,349
but it's certainly a possibilities and

2211
01:44:59,089 --> 01:44:57,000
one shouldn't rule that out the other

2212
01:45:01,700 --> 01:44:59,099
thing is that the East Coast sightings

2213
01:45:04,250 --> 01:45:01,710
as I recall the pilot said then I could

2214
01:45:07,040 --> 01:45:04,260
see this stuff every day or almost every

2215
01:45:09,500 --> 01:45:07,050
day well if that's the case I mean off

2216
01:45:11,689 --> 01:45:09,510
the eastern seaboard there are thousands

2217
01:45:14,060 --> 01:45:11,699
of commercial ships of all varieties

2218
01:45:16,189 --> 01:45:14,070
freighters and fishermen and all this

2219
01:45:18,220 --> 01:45:16,199
stuff and if these pilots could see this

2220
01:45:22,669 --> 01:45:18,230
stuff so obviously with their eyeballs

2221
01:45:24,430 --> 01:45:22,679
every day why is it that these guys

2222
01:45:26,930 --> 01:45:24,440
these other people don't ever see it

2223
01:45:29,839 --> 01:45:26,940
well not to say that they have or

2224
01:45:32,029 --> 01:45:29,849
haven't you know I mean that people have

2225
01:45:34,640 --> 01:45:32,039
well you know I mean I was at a

2226
01:45:36,410 --> 01:45:34,650
conference one time when they someone

2227
01:45:40,279 --> 01:45:36,420
asked how many people think they saw a

2228
01:45:42,290 --> 01:45:40,289
UFO and then everyone you know the there

2229
01:45:45,009 --> 01:45:42,300
was like a hundred hands let's just say

2230
01:45:49,100 --> 01:45:45,019
and then how many of you reported a UFO

2231
01:45:51,500 --> 01:45:49,110
that you saw and it was a tiny fraction

2232
01:45:54,009 --> 01:45:51,510
of people after use their hands

2233
01:45:58,189 --> 01:45:54,019
now what tiny fraction is still not zero

2234
01:46:00,140 --> 01:45:58,199
that's right and is there are we saying

2235
01:46:01,879 --> 01:46:00,150
that zero other people saw these things

2236
01:46:02,359 --> 01:46:01,889
I don't know I don't know I can't answer

2237
01:46:04,970 --> 01:46:02,369
that

2238
01:46:07,250 --> 01:46:04,980
yeah well the number of them but there's

2239
01:46:09,470 --> 01:46:07,260
been plenty of witnesses other than the

2240
01:46:11,930 --> 01:46:09,480
military that have seen you know UFOs

2241
01:46:15,919 --> 01:46:11,940
absolutely well let me ask you then

2242
01:46:18,620 --> 01:46:15,929
Martin since you clearly think that the

2243
01:46:21,049 --> 01:46:18,630
evidence is good for visitation

2244
01:46:22,819 --> 01:46:21,059
what would you cite as the best evidence

2245
01:46:25,520 --> 01:46:22,829
the evidence you would put in the

2246
01:46:27,470 --> 01:46:25,530
Smithsonian on display which is the the

2247
01:46:29,660 --> 01:46:27,480
convincing K talking about physical

2248
01:46:32,870 --> 01:46:29,670
evidence and I'm talking about something

2249
01:46:34,129 --> 01:46:32,880
you have to show yeah yeah all right why

2250
01:46:37,160 --> 01:46:34,139
don't you do the same thing with dark

2251
01:46:38,479 --> 01:46:37,170
matter then well I I actually found the

2252
01:46:42,620 --> 01:46:38,489
physical evidence for that and it was

2253
01:46:45,200 --> 01:46:42,630
the rotation speed of galaxies and can

2254
01:46:48,649 --> 01:46:45,210
you put that in the the Smithsonian I

2255
01:46:50,509 --> 01:46:48,659
don't or you know what's your point it's

2256
01:46:53,569 --> 01:46:50,519
like Newton's law you can put Newton's

2257
01:46:55,669 --> 01:46:53,579
law in the Smithsonian right all right

2258
01:46:57,859 --> 01:46:55,679
it is Newton's law in fact we

2259
01:46:59,600 --> 01:46:57,869
fundamentally it's that and that's easy

2260
01:47:01,759 --> 01:46:59,610
enough to demonstrate but you know just

2261
01:47:03,950 --> 01:47:01,769
looking at the positions of the stars or

2262
01:47:05,899 --> 01:47:03,960
Newton's law you can you know examined

2263
01:47:07,580 --> 01:47:05,909
by looking at the position of an apple

2264
01:47:10,040 --> 01:47:07,590
as you drop it from a tree

2265
01:47:12,200 --> 01:47:10,050
it's all very easily demonstrable but if

2266
01:47:13,940 --> 01:47:12,210
I were to ask you what's the best case

2267
01:47:16,250 --> 01:47:13,950
even if you don't want to put it in the

2268
01:47:18,410 --> 01:47:16,260
Smithsonian apparently nobody does what

2269
01:47:20,660 --> 01:47:18,420
would you say it was well when you're

2270
01:47:22,700 --> 01:47:20,670
saying put putting something Smithsonian

2271
01:47:26,120 --> 01:47:22,710
to me it sounds like physical evidence

2272
01:47:28,520 --> 01:47:26,130
and which you know there is no physical

2273
01:47:31,190 --> 01:47:28,530
evidence that we have there's a

2274
01:47:32,840 --> 01:47:31,200
possibility of metamaterials there's but

2275
01:47:35,210 --> 01:47:32,850
I don't know I don't hold much faith in

2276
01:47:37,430 --> 01:47:35,220
that that are being looked at actually

2277
01:47:41,120 --> 01:47:37,440
that are being looked at by the army as

2278
01:47:42,380 --> 01:47:41,130
well and this was recently came out but

2279
01:47:47,780 --> 01:47:42,390
as far as something you'd put in the

2280
01:47:49,520 --> 01:47:47,790
Smithsonian it's it's along also along

2281
01:47:51,920 --> 01:47:49,530
the lines of a lot of astronomy it's

2282
01:47:54,820 --> 01:47:51,930
observational you know people have seen

2283
01:47:57,920 --> 01:47:54,830
things witness things multiple witnesses

2284
01:48:00,800 --> 01:47:57,930
mass sightings now I'm not saying

2285
01:48:03,080 --> 01:48:00,810
they're alien I'm saying we don't know

2286
01:48:04,880 --> 01:48:03,090
what they are it's something too it's

2287
01:48:08,090 --> 01:48:04,890
something in my opinion that science

2288
01:48:10,930 --> 01:48:08,100
isn't taking seriously enough because

2289
01:48:12,950 --> 01:48:10,940
what if it was somehow threatening

2290
01:48:15,740 --> 01:48:12,960
aviation or something like that

2291
01:48:18,140 --> 01:48:15,750
I mean well did you do when you go to

2292
01:48:19,910 --> 01:48:18,150
the airport you know to check in and get

2293
01:48:21,710 --> 01:48:19,920
aboard the aircraft and you're sitting

2294
01:48:23,150 --> 01:48:21,720
there on the tarmac do you frequently

2295
01:48:26,090 --> 01:48:23,160
have the experience that the copilot

2296
01:48:28,280 --> 01:48:26,100
will come on and say well folks there's

2297
01:48:31,070 --> 01:48:28,290
some unidentified flying objects here in

2298
01:48:33,140 --> 01:48:31,080
the area they haven't filed a flight pal

2299
01:48:34,520 --> 01:48:33,150
a flight plan so we're just going to sit

2300
01:48:37,010 --> 01:48:34,530
here on the tarmac till they clear the

2301
01:48:38,780 --> 01:48:37,020
area I mean does that happen a lot no

2302
01:48:41,480 --> 01:48:38,790
but I mean I'm sure you've probably

2303
01:48:44,870 --> 01:48:41,490
heard of the the O'Hare case you know

2304
01:48:47,480 --> 01:48:44,880
that was one in particular that happened

2305
01:48:48,800 --> 01:48:47,490
you know at an airport it did happen in

2306
01:48:50,510 --> 01:48:48,810
the airport but it wasn't because they

2307
01:48:53,120 --> 01:48:50,520
were flying objects there was a strange

2308
01:48:56,060 --> 01:48:53,130
cloud formation that zoomed up right and

2309
01:48:58,400 --> 01:48:56,070
that that that wasn't a strange cloud

2310
01:49:00,860 --> 01:48:58,410
formation there was one many people that

2311
01:49:03,650 --> 01:49:00,870
that saw a perfectly shaped disc and and

2312
01:49:07,850 --> 01:49:03,660
and then they start shoot up through the

2313
01:49:10,580 --> 01:49:07,860
the clouds but again hmm

2314
01:49:12,650 --> 01:49:10,590
what are you saying it is uh there are

2315
01:49:15,170 --> 01:49:12,660
people that reported seeing a disc many

2316
01:49:17,060 --> 01:49:15,180
people and it was actually someone that

2317
01:49:19,340 --> 01:49:17,070
actually saw it from that was landing in

2318
01:49:21,160 --> 01:49:19,350
a plane - that talked about it mm-hmm

2319
01:49:24,880 --> 01:49:21,170
but it is all witness test

2320
01:49:27,729 --> 01:49:24,890
and you know there's no hard evidence

2321
01:49:31,510 --> 01:49:27,739
and but I just want to ask you this

2322
01:49:33,430 --> 01:49:31,520
question how come you think there's such

2323
01:49:36,189 --> 01:49:33,440
a ridicule factor in actually trying to

2324
01:49:38,380 --> 01:49:36,199
figure these things out well a lot a lot

2325
01:49:40,570 --> 01:49:38,390
of it is to begin with a lot of it is

2326
01:49:44,020 --> 01:49:40,580
witness testimony you just said that

2327
01:49:46,030 --> 01:49:44,030
yourself there's no worse a bit of

2328
01:49:49,000 --> 01:49:46,040
evidence for anything in science than

2329
01:49:51,189 --> 01:49:49,010
witness testimony right Newton Newton

2330
01:49:53,439 --> 01:49:51,199
Newton didn't say F equals MA on the

2331
01:49:54,970 --> 01:49:53,449
basis of witness testimony he did some

2332
01:49:56,770 --> 01:49:54,980
experiments but actually he just did it

2333
01:49:59,050 --> 01:49:56,780
all in his head and then he went out and

2334
01:50:00,310 --> 01:49:59,060
found some data on the motions of the

2335
01:50:01,810 --> 01:50:00,320
planets and it turned out he could

2336
01:50:04,330 --> 01:50:01,820
explain all that stuff and predict where

2337
01:50:06,370 --> 01:50:04,340
they were gonna be all right okay so

2338
01:50:08,140 --> 01:50:06,380
witness testimony I mean you can hear

2339
01:50:09,850 --> 01:50:08,150
you know lots of scientists say that

2340
01:50:13,470 --> 01:50:09,860
it's pretty much worthless if you've

2341
01:50:16,510 --> 01:50:13,480
ever been on a jury you know

2342
01:50:19,780 --> 01:50:16,520
particularly in a criminal case and you

2343
01:50:21,430 --> 01:50:19,790
have to you know take people in to a

2344
01:50:24,430 --> 01:50:21,440
lineup or something and say so which guy

2345
01:50:27,459 --> 01:50:24,440
here did this you know that's very

2346
01:50:28,689 --> 01:50:27,469
unreliable that usually juries don't pay

2347
01:50:30,700 --> 01:50:28,699
much attention to that because it's so

2348
01:50:32,080 --> 01:50:30,710
unreliable so witness testimony I think

2349
01:50:33,970 --> 01:50:32,090
you have to rule out if that's all

2350
01:50:36,250 --> 01:50:33,980
you've got I say you don't have much

2351
01:50:38,380 --> 01:50:36,260
it's got to be better the other thing I

2352
01:50:40,780 --> 01:50:38,390
noticed particularly in the UFO

2353
01:50:43,450 --> 01:50:40,790
community these days is that a lot of

2354
01:50:46,720 --> 01:50:43,460
people are placing their bets on what

2355
01:50:48,790 --> 01:50:46,730
they call disclosure and I'm sure you're

2356
01:50:50,350 --> 01:50:48,800
familiar with the idea here that there

2357
01:50:53,169 --> 01:50:50,360
is really good evidence for all of this

2358
01:50:55,479 --> 01:50:53,179
and the US government has it and they

2359
01:50:58,689 --> 01:50:55,489
will soon release it to the public and

2360
01:51:00,459 --> 01:50:58,699
these Navy videos are just another

2361
01:51:04,180 --> 01:51:00,469
indication that the truth is coming out

2362
01:51:05,500 --> 01:51:04,190
I don't buy into that no no I don't

2363
01:51:08,620 --> 01:51:05,510
either but I just wonder whether you did

2364
01:51:10,689 --> 01:51:08,630
yeah no no I don't buy into that I think

2365
01:51:12,400 --> 01:51:10,699
that it's possible that you know over

2366
01:51:15,160 --> 01:51:12,410
the years there's been a number of cases

2367
01:51:16,720 --> 01:51:15,170
where the government has confiscated

2368
01:51:20,470 --> 01:51:16,730
things for instance on the Nimitz case

2369
01:51:24,970 --> 01:51:20,480
they confiscated the some of the footage

2370
01:51:28,419 --> 01:51:24,980
and radar day tater radar records data

2371
01:51:30,250 --> 01:51:28,429
why would they do they did was witnessed

2372
01:51:33,370 --> 01:51:30,260
by a number of people they why would

2373
01:51:34,290 --> 01:51:33,380
they do that well I don't know exactly

2374
01:51:36,390 --> 01:51:34,300
why

2375
01:51:38,400 --> 01:51:36,400
and you know it'd be just speculating

2376
01:51:41,690 --> 01:51:38,410
but there's been a number of cases where

2377
01:51:45,480 --> 01:51:41,700
the government has confiscated footage

2378
01:51:48,000 --> 01:51:45,490
and there's a couple of accounts of that

2379
01:51:52,170 --> 01:51:48,010
one from an astronaut that actually

2380
01:51:54,210 --> 01:51:52,180
witnessed something but I don't know if

2381
01:51:55,470 --> 01:51:54,220
the government knows it's a curious if I

2382
01:51:56,820 --> 01:51:55,480
can interrupt you mind sure though which

2383
01:51:58,460 --> 01:51:56,830
it's not was that it because I know a

2384
01:52:01,800 --> 01:51:58,470
lot of the astronaut Gordon Cooper

2385
01:52:03,660 --> 01:52:01,810
Gordon Cooper yeah I also knew Edgar

2386
01:52:06,330 --> 01:52:03,670
Mitchell quite well and now this guy

2387
01:52:09,600 --> 01:52:06,340
yeah story Musgrave he also claims he

2388
01:52:11,670 --> 01:52:09,610
could year the aliens music in the

2389
01:52:14,820 --> 01:52:11,680
muffin fans I asked him about that

2390
01:52:17,280 --> 01:52:14,830
because he was on my show so I told him

2391
01:52:19,980 --> 01:52:17,290
I said your quote that you just said

2392
01:52:21,990 --> 01:52:19,990
right now I said Seth Shostak that said

2393
01:52:23,550 --> 01:52:22,000
that you said that and he said what he

2394
01:52:26,610 --> 01:52:23,560
acted like he had no idea what you were

2395
01:52:28,770 --> 01:52:26,620
talking about but no well III met him in

2396
01:52:31,830 --> 01:52:28,780
person when he said it but okay good

2397
01:52:33,810 --> 01:52:31,840
enough uh listen the thing is that you

2398
01:52:35,970 --> 01:52:33,820
know eyewitness testimony all repeated

2399
01:52:37,440 --> 01:52:35,980
again I mean you know I I know quite a

2400
01:52:39,900 --> 01:52:37,450
few of the astronauts and they're

2401
01:52:42,960 --> 01:52:39,910
wonderful people but you know you don't

2402
01:52:45,060 --> 01:52:42,970
decide matters of science or in this

2403
01:52:47,190 --> 01:52:45,070
case something that would be incredibly

2404
01:52:49,050 --> 01:52:47,200
interesting on the basis of witness

2405
01:52:50,930 --> 01:52:49,060
testimony you can't do that if you do

2406
01:52:54,030 --> 01:52:50,940
then you know that's it's just too weak

2407
01:52:56,850 --> 01:52:54,040
it has no predictive power it has no

2408
01:52:58,620 --> 01:52:56,860
quantitative power it's just somebody's

2409
01:53:01,620 --> 01:52:58,630
story and you can say well this person

2410
01:53:03,270 --> 01:53:01,630
is a military pilot well as somebody who

2411
01:53:04,890 --> 01:53:03,280
was a military pilot pointed out to me

2412
01:53:06,990 --> 01:53:04,900
he said military pilots are trained to

2413
01:53:10,050 --> 01:53:07,000
recognize other military aircraft

2414
01:53:13,350 --> 01:53:10,060
all right I'll train sorry to recognize

2415
01:53:15,300 --> 01:53:13,360
alien craft so I would say that what you

2416
01:53:20,250 --> 01:53:15,310
have to do is just find some evidence

2417
01:53:21,950 --> 01:53:20,260
that's quantitative and there's what do

2418
01:53:25,520 --> 01:53:21,960
you consider that would you consider

2419
01:53:29,130 --> 01:53:25,530
witness testimony backed up by

2420
01:53:31,350 --> 01:53:29,140
eyewitnesses not something they backed

2421
01:53:32,790 --> 01:53:31,360
by eyewitnesses I'm sorry backed up by

2422
01:53:35,340 --> 01:53:32,800
radar data

2423
01:53:38,190 --> 01:53:35,350
well radar is very ambiguous itself

2424
01:53:40,170 --> 01:53:38,200
actually anybody who works in radar

2425
01:53:41,520 --> 01:53:40,180
knows that and my father was involved

2426
01:53:43,680 --> 01:53:41,530
with radar I mean you can get radar

2427
01:53:45,690 --> 01:53:43,690
reflections from the atmosphere okay so

2428
01:53:48,240 --> 01:53:45,700
radar reflections per se are not

2429
01:53:49,730 --> 01:53:48,250
necessarily but it's another

2430
01:53:53,360 --> 01:53:49,740
you know what would would convince me

2431
01:53:56,690 --> 01:53:53,370
just looking this up there 770

2432
01:53:59,100 --> 01:53:56,700
satellites orbiting the earth that are

2433
01:54:01,530 --> 01:53:59,110
imaging satellites they're looking at

2434
01:54:02,820 --> 01:54:01,540
the earth making imagery okay and you

2435
01:54:05,670 --> 01:54:02,830
know everybody knows about some of these

2436
01:54:07,560 --> 01:54:05,680
like the the you know the satellites

2437
01:54:09,750 --> 01:54:07,570
that produce those weather maps you see

2438
01:54:12,990 --> 01:54:09,760
every night on the news and of course

2439
01:54:15,090 --> 01:54:13,000
the military has a lot of imaging

2440
01:54:17,100 --> 01:54:15,100
satellites for reconnaissance and not

2441
01:54:19,110 --> 01:54:17,110
just the u.s. obviously you know they're

2442
01:54:21,330 --> 01:54:19,120
the dozen countries I'm sure at least

2443
01:54:23,130 --> 01:54:21,340
that have these things okay

2444
01:54:26,010 --> 01:54:23,140
and they actually survey the entire

2445
01:54:28,590 --> 01:54:26,020
planet about once a day and typically

2446
01:54:30,840 --> 01:54:28,600
have resolution of about one meter they

2447
01:54:35,400 --> 01:54:30,850
don't see any of this stuff why is that

2448
01:54:38,370 --> 01:54:35,410
high well a lot of I can understand that

2449
01:54:40,650 --> 01:54:38,380
in a way where a lot of people will say

2450
01:54:42,840 --> 01:54:40,660
that when they're I witnessing or even

2451
01:54:44,580 --> 01:54:42,850
on radar have seen something in one spot

2452
01:54:47,340 --> 01:54:44,590
and then all of a sudden it's somewhere

2453
01:54:50,160 --> 01:54:47,350
else and again you know you keep

2454
01:54:52,380 --> 01:54:50,170
bringing up aliens and possible out of

2455
01:54:54,150 --> 01:54:52,390
coming in from outer space I don't know

2456
01:54:55,950 --> 01:54:54,160
if that's what these things are but you

2457
01:54:58,470 --> 01:54:55,960
think they're not aliens I don't know

2458
01:55:00,620 --> 01:54:58,480
although I'm saying I don't know but I

2459
01:55:05,000 --> 01:55:00,630
know that there's something to it and

2460
01:55:07,020 --> 01:55:05,010
also you know you talk about the radar

2461
01:55:10,410 --> 01:55:07,030
imperfections and I think radar is

2462
01:55:12,060 --> 01:55:10,420
another technology that has gotten much

2463
01:55:14,400 --> 01:55:12,070
better over the years and I don't think

2464
01:55:16,080 --> 01:55:14,410
you're going to be getting from all

2465
01:55:18,390 --> 01:55:16,090
these different angles and all these

2466
01:55:21,060 --> 01:55:18,400
different radars that are seeing one

2467
01:55:23,360 --> 01:55:21,070
thing the same thing happen I don't

2468
01:55:25,770 --> 01:55:23,370
think that's that's going to be some

2469
01:55:29,670 --> 01:55:25,780
atmospheric inversion or whatever you

2470
01:55:31,260 --> 01:55:29,680
said it was myself I mean all I'm trying

2471
01:55:32,700 --> 01:55:31,270
to say stuff is I think these things are

2472
01:55:35,190 --> 01:55:32,710
unexplainable and I think they should be

2473
01:55:37,470 --> 01:55:35,200
looked at more seriously by science

2474
01:55:39,510 --> 01:55:37,480
instead of unexplainable look at them

2475
01:55:42,060 --> 01:55:39,520
again I don't get it Martin what's that

2476
01:55:43,380 --> 01:55:42,070
if they're unexplainable what good does

2477
01:55:45,720 --> 01:55:43,390
it do to look at them again

2478
01:55:47,970 --> 01:55:45,730
well unexplainable by what we know but

2479
01:55:50,280 --> 01:55:47,980
aren't you curious as a scientist to

2480
01:55:53,280 --> 01:55:50,290
figure okay okay so again you meant

2481
01:55:56,040 --> 01:55:53,290
unexplained right unexplained okay part

2482
01:55:57,450 --> 01:55:56,050
right oh yes oh okay yeah sure

2483
01:55:59,340 --> 01:55:57,460
absolutely

2484
01:56:02,060 --> 01:55:59,350
no we should keep looking after all I

2485
01:56:04,950 --> 01:56:02,070
mean if this is true right I'm

2486
01:56:06,360 --> 01:56:04,960
you know this British theoretician said

2487
01:56:08,880 --> 01:56:06,370
me shall slack if I thought there was a

2488
01:56:10,890 --> 01:56:08,890
1% chance any of this was true I'd spent

2489
01:56:12,240 --> 01:56:10,900
all my time working on it well clearly

2490
01:56:15,180 --> 01:56:12,250
he doesn't believe that there's even a

2491
01:56:16,560 --> 01:56:15,190
1% chance that it's true but if you can

2492
01:56:19,110 --> 01:56:16,570
come up with evidence that shows that

2493
01:56:21,090 --> 01:56:19,120
there is at least a 1% chance that it's

2494
01:56:23,040 --> 01:56:21,100
true then you're gonna have thousands of

2495
01:56:25,470 --> 01:56:23,050
scientists working on it the fact that

2496
01:56:27,570 --> 01:56:25,480
they're not says a lot to me you know

2497
01:56:29,340 --> 01:56:27,580
scientists are not you know they're not

2498
01:56:31,110 --> 01:56:29,350
so closed minded that they wouldn't be

2499
01:56:35,910 --> 01:56:31,120
interested in the most interesting story

2500
01:56:38,070 --> 01:56:35,920
you could have I think I think the whole

2501
01:56:41,430 --> 01:56:38,080
back on a lot of people in the science

2502
01:56:43,920 --> 01:56:41,440
world is the ridicule factor I mean my

2503
01:56:46,380 --> 01:56:43,930
last guest my last guest you know

2504
01:56:48,290 --> 01:56:46,390
mentioned that you know that's he is

2505
01:56:50,490 --> 01:56:48,300
actually a scientist looking into this

2506
01:56:52,440 --> 01:56:50,500
he actually had a sighting he didn't

2507
01:56:54,840 --> 01:56:52,450
know what it was but you know when he

2508
01:56:56,820 --> 01:56:54,850
was young and that got him more

2509
01:56:59,970 --> 01:56:56,830
interested in you know taking a hard

2510
01:57:02,070 --> 01:56:59,980
look at this university somewhere is he

2511
01:57:03,390 --> 01:57:02,080
getting really cool from yeah he was not

2512
01:57:05,160 --> 01:57:03,400
getting ridiculed but he's saying there

2513
01:57:06,780 --> 01:57:05,170
is the ridicule factor out there and

2514
01:57:09,450 --> 01:57:06,790
that's why scientists aren't taking a

2515
01:57:12,900 --> 01:57:09,460
hard look at this I don't buy that at

2516
01:57:14,970 --> 01:57:12,910
all I don't think that's true at all

2517
01:57:16,680 --> 01:57:14,980
there was ridicule factor in claiming

2518
01:57:18,870 --> 01:57:16,690
that the bones that were being found in

2519
01:57:21,590 --> 01:57:18,880
Britain you know 200 years ago were due

2520
01:57:25,920 --> 01:57:21,600
to animals that once roamed the earth

2521
01:57:27,810 --> 01:57:25,930
I feel so that I feel as though that I'm

2522
01:57:29,240 --> 01:57:27,820
getting a little ridicule from you you

2523
01:57:32,910 --> 01:57:29,250
know as we're having this conversation

2524
01:57:36,150 --> 01:57:32,920
like okay basically why am I wasting my

2525
01:57:40,620 --> 01:57:36,160
time on it I feel I feel that from from

2526
01:57:44,580 --> 01:57:40,630
you so you know I mean are you

2527
01:57:47,490 --> 01:57:44,590
ridiculing people that look at UFOs no I

2528
01:57:49,320 --> 01:57:47,500
just said I'm perfectly happy for people

2529
01:57:51,540 --> 01:57:49,330
to look into it because if there is

2530
01:57:53,550 --> 01:57:51,550
something here it would be good to know

2531
01:57:55,980 --> 01:57:53,560
it's just that the evidence that is

2532
01:57:58,920 --> 01:57:55,990
presented so far is to my mind simply

2533
01:58:00,840 --> 01:57:58,930
unconvincing well in my mind it's

2534
01:58:04,080 --> 01:58:00,850
unconvincing what SETI's turned up to

2535
01:58:05,520 --> 01:58:04,090
but you're still looking right but we

2536
01:58:08,670 --> 01:58:05,530
don't claim that we found something so

2537
01:58:10,950 --> 01:58:08,680
what's unconvincing about it well who

2538
01:58:13,920 --> 01:58:10,960
you are I'm just saying you are looking

2539
01:58:15,600 --> 01:58:13,930
for something that hasn't been found we

2540
01:58:17,520 --> 01:58:15,610
we don't have evidence

2541
01:58:19,590 --> 01:58:17,530
we haven't found evidence that we can

2542
01:58:22,050 --> 01:58:19,600
hand over to the Smithsonian like you

2543
01:58:25,379 --> 01:58:22,060
say but I still think it's it's really

2544
01:58:26,850 --> 01:58:25,389
worth the time in looking into it but

2545
01:58:29,160 --> 01:58:26,860
Martin I didn't I didn't understand your

2546
01:58:29,490 --> 01:58:29,170
comment why why is SETI unconvincing to

2547
01:58:33,899 --> 01:58:29,500
you

2548
01:58:35,010 --> 01:58:33,909
that's not a matter of own convincing

2549
01:58:38,910 --> 01:58:35,020
that's just saying that we haven't found

2550
01:58:41,790 --> 01:58:38,920
anything well I'm just saying your

2551
01:58:44,580 --> 01:58:41,800
argument you know is basically it's kind

2552
01:58:47,550 --> 01:58:44,590
of the same argument we don't we haven't

2553
01:58:49,859 --> 01:58:47,560
found any evidence of of UFOs that we

2554
01:58:52,109 --> 01:58:49,869
can say that you know there's still

2555
01:58:53,910 --> 01:58:52,119
evidence to be found but there's

2556
01:58:57,060 --> 01:58:53,920
something going on some people is

2557
01:58:58,260 --> 01:58:57,070
waiting something okay so that's the

2558
01:59:01,439 --> 01:58:58,270
difference you're making the claim that

2559
01:59:02,910 --> 01:59:01,449
there is something going on I think

2560
01:59:04,620 --> 01:59:02,920
there is something definitely going on

2561
01:59:07,950 --> 01:59:04,630
yes okay well that's the difference

2562
01:59:09,840 --> 01:59:07,960
between the UFO hypothesis and the SETI

2563
01:59:11,760 --> 01:59:09,850
hypothesis the SETI hypothesis you're

2564
01:59:13,560 --> 01:59:11,770
quite right it's not round a signal yet

2565
01:59:15,840 --> 01:59:13,570
that's how we find signals all the time

2566
01:59:17,700 --> 01:59:15,850
but we haven't found a signal yet that's

2567
01:59:19,350 --> 01:59:17,710
you know confess convincing and

2568
01:59:21,090 --> 01:59:19,360
compelling many people know about the

2569
01:59:24,959 --> 01:59:21,100
WoW signal for example in the service

2570
01:59:28,640 --> 01:59:24,969
right yeah sorry the 1970s wasn't that

2571
01:59:34,470 --> 01:59:28,650
all the way back then yes that was in

2572
01:59:38,129 --> 01:59:34,480
1974 as I recall but no sorry 1977 1977

2573
01:59:39,780 --> 01:59:38,139
yeah but you know that didn't meet the

2574
01:59:41,700 --> 01:59:39,790
standards of science which is to say it

2575
01:59:44,340 --> 01:59:41,710
was repeatable and you could find it

2576
01:59:45,660 --> 01:59:44,350
again that hasn't happened so you know

2577
01:59:48,629 --> 01:59:45,670
whatever it was we don't know what it is

2578
01:59:51,780 --> 01:59:48,639
and we don't claim that it was et but

2579
01:59:53,580 --> 01:59:51,790
the UFO community often takes the point

2580
01:59:56,689 --> 01:59:53,590
of view that no there is something in

2581
02:00:01,740 --> 01:59:56,699
our air space and that's a difference

2582
02:00:04,350 --> 02:00:01,750
well I I guess I'm on the same page with

2583
02:00:07,109 --> 02:00:04,360
them because I think there is something

2584
02:00:10,169 --> 02:00:07,119
in our air space so I know you want to

2585
02:00:12,629 --> 02:00:10,179
see the evidence of that if what would

2586
02:00:13,950 --> 02:00:12,639
convince you physical evidence only

2587
02:00:18,120 --> 02:00:13,960
because there's definitely a lot of

2588
02:00:20,660 --> 02:00:18,130
radar and you know I know video can be

2589
02:00:23,220 --> 02:00:20,670
manipulated but there's even early video

2590
02:00:24,990 --> 02:00:23,230
you know what what is convincing enough

2591
02:00:27,390 --> 02:00:25,000
for you actually something that you can

2592
02:00:27,750 --> 02:00:27,400
reach out and touch well that would be

2593
02:00:29,370 --> 02:00:27,760
great

2594
02:00:31,800 --> 02:00:29,380
yeah something I mean oh you know

2595
02:00:33,709 --> 02:00:31,810
these things are flying around they

2596
02:00:36,419 --> 02:00:33,719
don't seem to have much as they say much

2597
02:00:40,110 --> 02:00:36,429
impact but if they did have an impact

2598
02:00:42,629 --> 02:00:40,120
you know I mean one of the more famous

2599
02:00:45,149 --> 02:00:42,639
cases is of course Roz oh that's an old

2600
02:00:47,040 --> 02:00:45,159
one now still very controversial in my

2601
02:00:48,720 --> 02:00:47,050
opinion because there's an alternative

2602
02:00:50,459 --> 02:00:48,730
explanation for what happened at Roswell

2603
02:00:53,070 --> 02:00:50,469
that fits all the facts rather nicely

2604
02:00:55,560 --> 02:00:53,080
but of course if you're convinced that

2605
02:00:57,810 --> 02:00:55,570
aliens came to New Mexico and crash you

2606
02:01:01,100 --> 02:00:57,820
don't you don't buy into that but you

2607
02:01:03,600 --> 02:01:01,110
know there was some debris the debris

2608
02:01:05,040 --> 02:01:03,610
was identified by the people who were

2609
02:01:06,300 --> 02:01:05,050
involved with this project mogul and

2610
02:01:08,490 --> 02:01:06,310
they said yeah that's our balloon train

2611
02:01:11,010 --> 02:01:08,500
but they're other people say no no it

2612
02:01:13,979 --> 02:01:11,020
was alien crash but you know if it was

2613
02:01:15,390 --> 02:01:13,989
an alien crash why was it so limited in

2614
02:01:17,520 --> 02:01:15,400
size and scope that you could throw it

2615
02:01:19,860 --> 02:01:17,530
all into a truck and take it 70 miles

2616
02:01:22,110 --> 02:01:19,870
down to the city of Roswell I mean those

2617
02:01:25,560 --> 02:01:22,120
kinds of things you know that that isn't

2618
02:01:27,629 --> 02:01:25,570
good if it Hollow doubt a crater 500

2619
02:01:29,459 --> 02:01:27,639
feet across and there was also two

2620
02:01:31,860 --> 02:01:29,469
debris at the bottom of it okay that's

2621
02:01:34,620 --> 02:01:31,870
different right but I don't see that

2622
02:01:37,020 --> 02:01:34,630
kind of evidence I don't know you know I

2623
02:01:39,330 --> 02:01:37,030
don't want to get into a Roswell debate

2624
02:01:40,770 --> 02:01:39,340
with you but no I will tell you that you

2625
02:01:42,600 --> 02:01:40,780
know the one thing that always has

2626
02:01:45,300 --> 02:01:42,610
puzzled me about that is why on earth

2627
02:01:49,200 --> 02:01:45,310
the Army Air Force at the time actually

2628
02:01:52,530 --> 02:01:49,210
you know posted a press release saying

2629
02:01:56,189 --> 02:01:52,540
that a flying disc was found by them

2630
02:01:58,229 --> 02:01:56,199
when if they did find something if they

2631
02:01:59,970 --> 02:01:58,239
found a mogul the project mogul or

2632
02:02:00,870 --> 02:01:59,980
whatever it was they found they didn't

2633
02:02:02,490 --> 02:02:00,880
have to say anything

2634
02:02:04,560 --> 02:02:02,500
there was no reason for them to say

2635
02:02:07,020 --> 02:02:04,570
anything I just think that's a the big

2636
02:02:09,300 --> 02:02:07,030
puzzle of Roswell well they weren't

2637
02:02:11,939 --> 02:02:09,310
digging up a mogul what their project

2638
02:02:13,950 --> 02:02:11,949
mogul was a project I know I know what

2639
02:02:16,740 --> 02:02:13,960
it is I'm just saying that even if they

2640
02:02:19,140 --> 02:02:16,750
had found a project mogul balloon system

2641
02:02:21,390 --> 02:02:19,150
or whatever that they had I know what

2642
02:02:22,410 --> 02:02:21,400
that was you know supposedly for so they

2643
02:02:25,649 --> 02:02:22,420
could see if the Russians were doing

2644
02:02:28,560 --> 02:02:25,659
anything in the nuclear world but if

2645
02:02:30,540 --> 02:02:28,570
they had found something like that why

2646
02:02:31,320 --> 02:02:30,550
would they even put anything in the

2647
02:02:32,790 --> 02:02:31,330
paper at all

2648
02:02:35,129 --> 02:02:32,800
you know I mean that that's just a

2649
02:02:37,649 --> 02:02:35,139
bizarre well because who had been in the

2650
02:02:39,510 --> 02:02:37,659
paper because that story was out there

2651
02:02:41,220 --> 02:02:39,520
and they had to respond to it no no was

2652
02:02:42,939 --> 02:02:41,230
the Army Air Force that actually

2653
02:02:46,360 --> 02:02:42,949
released the story first

2654
02:02:48,610 --> 02:02:46,370
no no no the paper came to them look

2655
02:02:52,540 --> 02:02:48,620
this guy Brazel whatever his name he

2656
02:02:55,150 --> 02:02:52,550
carries the debris into Roswell he goes

2657
02:02:57,430 --> 02:02:55,160
to the newspaper he shows him this stuff

2658
02:02:59,439 --> 02:02:57,440
they say what is it he doesn't know what

2659
02:03:00,790 --> 02:02:59,449
it is I develop I think you may be

2660
02:03:02,919 --> 02:03:00,800
getting your facts a little wrong on

2661
02:03:04,450 --> 02:03:02,929
that one stuff but I'm not I'm not a

2662
02:03:07,390 --> 02:03:04,460
hundred percent sure but I think you I

2663
02:03:09,459 --> 02:03:07,400
think you might have that one thing that

2664
02:03:13,330 --> 02:03:09,469
the military called up the newspaper and

2665
02:03:15,390 --> 02:03:13,340
said run this story yes okay yeah

2666
02:03:18,510 --> 02:03:15,400
yeah that's what that's what's out there

2667
02:03:21,250 --> 02:03:18,520
hang on just one minute I know all your

2668
02:03:23,020 --> 02:03:21,260
gave an explanation and at first they

2669
02:03:24,400 --> 02:03:23,030
said it was a weather balloon and they

2670
02:03:26,020 --> 02:03:24,410
realized that everybody would know that

2671
02:03:27,939 --> 02:03:26,030
it wasn't a weather balloon so they

2672
02:03:31,030 --> 02:03:27,949
changed the story the next day to a

2673
02:03:31,660 --> 02:03:31,040
flying disc right or maybe it was the

2674
02:03:33,580 --> 02:03:31,670
other way around

2675
02:03:36,820 --> 02:03:33,590
they had these two stories and they were

2676
02:03:38,680 --> 02:03:36,830
trying to distance themselves from the

2677
02:03:40,000 --> 02:03:38,690
story because of course this was a

2678
02:03:43,419 --> 02:03:40,010
secret operation

2679
02:03:44,800 --> 02:03:43,429
well well anyway I didn't want I didn't

2680
02:03:47,169 --> 02:03:44,810
want to go Roswell tonight but that's

2681
02:03:49,750 --> 02:03:47,179
okay anyway stuff

2682
02:03:52,959 --> 02:03:49,760
thanks so much it's been a pleasure it's

2683
02:03:56,380 --> 02:03:52,969
always interesting and it's it's kind of

2684
02:03:58,390 --> 02:03:56,390
fun talking about the UFO topic with

2685
02:04:01,810 --> 02:03:58,400
someone like you and good luck with your

2686
02:04:03,880 --> 02:04:01,820
I think what you have you said with Nick

2687
02:04:06,520 --> 02:04:03,890
Pope when is that coming up that debate

2688
02:04:08,919 --> 02:04:06,530
that's that's Saturday morning this

2689
02:04:12,040 --> 02:04:08,929
coming yep yeah that should be

2690
02:04:13,630 --> 02:04:12,050
interesting all right you take care ok

2691
02:04:13,959 --> 02:04:13,640
thanks very much mark all right thank

2692
02:04:15,820 --> 02:04:13,969
you

2693
02:04:19,060 --> 02:04:15,830
all right everyone so that's it for the

2694
02:04:23,260 --> 02:04:19,070
show and we will be back next week our

2695
02:04:25,570 --> 02:04:23,270
guests next week will be two people we

2696
02:04:27,220 --> 02:04:25,580
have Peter Robbins and we also have

2697
02:04:30,610 --> 02:04:27,230
Jennifer Stein they're going to be

2698
02:04:33,820 --> 02:04:30,620
talking about their book

2699
02:04:37,030 --> 02:04:33,830
I'm sorry their film coming up and I

2700
02:04:39,040 --> 02:04:37,040
want to thank everyone for hanging out

2701
02:04:42,160 --> 02:04:39,050
tonight we went a little longer than

2702
02:04:45,070 --> 02:04:42,170
normal and we'll be back next week on

2703
02:04:46,900 --> 02:04:45,080
kgr a radio as well all right everyone

2704
02:04:48,280 --> 02:04:46,910
so talk to you later and see you next

2705
02:04:49,190 --> 02:04:48,290
week and remember to keep your eyes to

2706
02:04:55,730 --> 02:04:49,200
the sky